DNP Fluff

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Just from comparing nurse practitioner DNP vs MSN course lists I felt these were fluff classes. I recently started the first semester of a DNP program and my opinion is evolving. Currently, I think the extra classes add some value. However, spending hours comparing various leadership frameworks, exploring personal ethics, contemplating system structures, and stressing the OCD qualities of an APA paper seems a huge misuse of time. I see no reason these topics could not be covered through a series of seminars.

In the first year, my class will spend 5x more time working on topics like this than learning something I find interesting like pathophysiology. I know many of my classmates have expressed disappointment in the agenda for this first year. Personally, I can feel a moral dip as I turn the page to another topic unrelated to learning how to diagnose and treat patients.

I just never could understand the benefit of paying money to write papers. Doesn't sound fun or useful

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Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

I graduated with my DNP 5/21/16. If I was starting today I would not go the DNP route. I agree there were way too many papers and fluff courses. I will never enter a patient's room asking what would Peplau or Orem think/do. Nursing theory is crap in my opinion. I spent way too much time in the 4 years going from BSN-DNP on a useless capstone I will never use. I did have over 1200 clinical hours but zero of those were in specialties. Most FNP graduates have no interest in primary care and go into specialties. I actually like the PA curriculum better and the PA students hit the ground running when I was in clinical. Faculty advised us that it takes the average NP student a year to catch up with a new PA. Why is that acceptable? No one has to agree these are my opinions and I wear flame resistant material well lol.

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I graduated with my DNP 5/21/16. If I was starting today I would not go the DNP route. I agree there were way too many papers and fluff courses. I will never enter a patient's room asking what would Peplau or Orem think/do. Nursing theory is crap in my opinion. I spent way too much time in the 4 years going from BSN-DNP on a useless capstone I will never use. I did have over 1200 clinical hours but zero of those were in specialties. Most FNP graduates have no interest in primary care and go into specialties. I actually like the PA curriculum better and the PA students hit the ground running when I was in clinical. Faculty advised us that it takes the average NP student a year to catch up with a new PA. Why is that acceptable? No one has to agree these are my opinions and I wear flame resistant material well lol.

You answer your own question. PA curriculum is better. Let's be honest here: It's different cohort; There are smart NP students, but PA students are smarter on average.

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Specializes in Outpatient Psychiatry.
OP- being a nurse and being an NP is NOT just about the daily taskwork. It is much more. The so-called 'fluff' is useful even if it doesn't align with the topic at hand.

Oh, really? How so?

I'm a NP. I don't do anything but evaluate and treat psychiatric patients and enter evals and progress notes into the EHR. Let me reiterate, I don't do anything but the formerly mentioned tasks. I don't even talk on the phone. I don't want to do anything that doesn't immediately result in billable time. I don't care about policy, quality, education, etc. I subscribe to physician journals. How's the DNP going to help me other than calling myself Dr. Guy with chagrin?

I'm not trying to be spiteful, but I chose this field to be an unsupervised cog in a bigger machine, and that's what I got. I'm well oiled and well cared for. Is the DNP only for those with governmental and academic aspirations? It seems so.

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Specializes in Outpatient Psychiatry.
You answer your own question. PA curriculum is better. Let's be honest here: It's different cohort; There are smart NP students, but PA students are smarter on average.

I'm not sure we could validate the latter statements. Qualitatively, we can see that PA students take courses designed with a more rigorous and quantitative base. I think many enter nursing, take only nursing courses, and never realize there are more educational endeavors to be had in other departments of the university. I took courses in every department except ag...and not ag because I graduated too soon. I really wanted to take the introductory forestry lecture and dendrology lab as well as soils and agronomy. I played in ever area from chem to philosophy and liked almost all of it. Ironically, I can't say there was a singular nursing class that I found either informational or inspirational.

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Specializes in Outpatient Psychiatry.
Speaking as one who completed my DNP and am both a CRNA, FNP and ENP. Most of the DNP classes are totally worthless and are of absolutely no help in clinical practice. The reason the educators do this is because it makes money for the school and is easy to deliver online. That's the bottom line.

There are so many clinically oriented classes that could be given to make NPs stronger yet they don't.

I continue to be puzzled why the clinically relevant courses aren't even offered in master's settings for NP students.

Ok, so research, advanced research, advanced community health (*** is community health anyway), nursing theories....what did I gain? Headache and student loan interest. That's what. Then I spent the first year of my career, to the point it was deleterious to my marriage, trying to play catch up and learn actual clinically relevant medicine.

It's immaterial, unilateral dogma that makes me a nurse who isn't pro nursing. I think the entirety of the profession and academic preparation needs a giant shake up.

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I'm not sure we could validate the latter statements. Qualitatively, we can see that PA students take courses designed with a more rigorous and quantitative base. I think many enter nursing, take only nursing courses, and never realize there are more educational endeavors to be had in other departments of the university. I took courses in every department except ag...and not ag because I graduated too soon. I really wanted to take the introductory forestry lecture and dendrology lab as well as soils and agronomy. I played in ever area from chem to philosophy and liked almost all of it. Ironically, I can't say there was a singular nursing class that I found either informational or inspirational.

I agree that it might be hard to validate my latter statement, but when a selection process is more rigorous, you are more likely to recruit 'smarter' applicants.

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.

Personally, I feel that the DNP concept is not totally absurd but the way the DNP product” is being sold to the larger nursing community needs re-examination. Majority of nurses who pursue roles as NP's (and other advanced practice providers) do so to meet a desire to remain as clinicians. Our ideal day to day practice revolves around seeing patients, assessing, diagnosing, and treating them. Along that process, there has to be some awareness of revenue generation and cost-containment efforts but the biggest part of our intellectual exercise in seeing patients is an understanding of pathophysiology and the ability to use current evidence supporting our treatment decisions. This should be the bulk of our education as NP's which I felt would have been more than adequately addressed in a Master's degree program offering.

On the other hand, those of us practicing NP's who desire advancement and leadership in the larger healthcare establishment or are interested in involvement in driving the future of healthcare policy should have the option to pursue doctoral education that addresses these higher” aspirations. For me, this would be where a DNP comes in handy. I think it's a mistake to make the DNP an entry to practice requirement. I think some of those pursuing the DNP (particularly those in BSN to DNP programs) do not yet have the professional maturity to enter leadership roles but are totally ready for a role as an advanced practice healthcare provider. These individuals do not need to get hammered with fluff” courses in epidemiology, health policy, health care lobbying, etc. but rather a solid background in preparing to be a safe and competent healthcare provider.

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Specializes in Critical Care, Emergency, Education, Informatics.
You answer your own question. PA curriculum is better. Let's be honest here: It's different cohort; There are smart NP students, but PA students are smarter on average.

Not better, but different, and the level of experience of the RN going into NP school on average isn't what it was back when the proffesion started. The issue is that the curriculm hasn't caught up to the fact that a large percentage of students have only been an RN for a year or more.

As someone who teaches both. No the PA students aren't any smarter.

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Not better, but different, and the level of experience of the RN going into NP school on average isn't what it was back when the proffesion started. The issue is that the curriculm hasn't caught up to the fact that a large percentage of students have only been an RN for a year or more.

As someone who teaches both. No the PA students aren't any smarter.

My cousin (an internist) who has precepted 100s PA/NP would disagree... I would also disagree with my limited experience. NP don't know [insert] in basic science.

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Specializes in Neurosurgery, Neurology.
My cousin (an internist) who has precepted 100s PA/NP would disagree... I would also disagree with my limited experience. NP don't know [insert] in basic science.

This sounds like the CNAs that claim they know more than the RN. How would you know what they know in basic science? Are you an NP?

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In most cases a PA will come out more prepared than an NP. Ive had better experience with PA students than most NP students back when i was working. PA boards are also much more difficult than NP boards, as is the curriculum.

there is a pa school where i am in med school at. we all use the same teachers for most everything. But the nursing department is completely separate and on their own. The NP students don't even really use the sim labs like we do. They also have to set up their own clinical and nobody else does. They also do not do even get to do cadaver labs. only provider training program here that does not get to do that.

There is a difference folks, please do not be blind to it.

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