dissecting cats

Stratiotes · Nov 17, 2008

You are probably right. And honestly, I really didn't feel like I got any more from dissecting the cat than observing the models and pictures from the book. So I really don't see the point of having to dissect them anyway.

back2thebooks · Nov 17, 2008

I know what you are saying about the cats not having a say in being speciments, but think about drugs....there is LOTS of animal testing in the pharmaceutical industry. That's also a huge part of nursing. You can't get away from it....even with common household/personal products---many companies test on animals and raise the animals soley for this purpose.

I am a HUGE animal lover, and I have to say---as long as it's not gratutious killing---I can get over it. By that I mean, as long as it is being done for learning purposes/safety/efficacy, etc.

Many, many years ago I wrote a paper against animal testing. I do believe that if there are reasonable alternatives, that they should be considered---but the problem with the strays at shelters is that many of the cats are diseased, etc.

It's just a no win situation---I don't want to dissect a cat, but I will view it as a learning experience. I've had to learn to choose my emotional battles in life---otherwise, I'd walk around a broken woman, completely sickened by the world.

lildiamond · Nov 17, 2008

"but the problem with the strays at shelters is that many of the cats are diseased, etc."

Most of the cats euthanized at shelters do not have serious diseases that would alter anatomical structure, nor are there any feline diseases that pose a risk to student dissectors. Many cats have simple upper resp. diseases, but this would not pose an issue to using these cats as dissection subjects.

I personally go out of my way to purchase makeup, household cleaning products, clothing, etc. that is cruelty free. It really is not that hard to do...In terms of the drug companies testing on animals, until the FDA realizes that many LD 50 tests are outdated and unnecessary, they will continue. But really, if we can do one small thing (lessening the amount of cats dissected) then this is better than doing nothing I feel.

I also think that you said something very true, to choose emotional battles carefully. The problem is when people think something is wrong, they choose to go along even in the face of their better judgement. If you think something is amoral or out of line with your instincts, then DON'T DO IT.

There is a term called "groupthink" that basically says that faulty decision making happens when members of a group (students, jurors, etc) don't rationally make their own decisions and when group members also feel the need to conform, even if they disagree with what the group thinks.

I hope someday the need to kill animals for science wanes. There are better alternatives.

"The only thing needed for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing." --Author: Edmund Burke

HeatherTN · Nov 17, 2008

I totally agree w/all of you and personally I cannot wait til "animal testing" is a thing of the past!! Our professor for A&P I stated that the cats come from Mexico where obviously the laws are more lax on this sort of thing!! I took A&P II online and personally loved the online lab and dissections....they were animated but I personally got more out of it b/c if I did not understand something or felt I needed to do it again I just simply hit the "clear/restart" button.....in the lab you get one cat one chance......so I got more out of the online lab......

Take care all

Heather

back2thebooks · Nov 17, 2008

Not trying to be contrary...but you CANNOT completely avoid animal testing (I guarantee even if you buy products which were not tested on animals, at some point, in some products, one of the ingredients probably was). Many times the package states that the finished product wasn't tested. Also, animals will always be part of making medicine. Look at the biotech industry---great things are happening in healing people because of animals. I'm grateful to the animals for their role in possibly saving my own or my child's life someday. I'm just saying....

To play devil's advocate....I'm assuming that those who are so adamantly against dissecting cats have already given advance directive (legal) to donate their own body to science? I'm just saying....

vashtee, RN · Nov 17, 2008

Wow, this is going to sound harsh, but I *liked* doing the dissections, and I learned a lot from them. I even did 2 extra cats (for extra credit) because so many of our students were squeamish, and we needed more cats for the final exam.

Anyway, I think in a weird way, the dissections do help with nursing school... after all, nurses see and smell lots of really gross things. I considered the cat dissection to be a sort of personal litmus test.

dreamon · Nov 19, 2008

I'm a dog lover personally. So it doesn't bother me either way.

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Nov 19, 2008

Not trying to be contrary...but you CANNOT completely avoid animal testing (I guarantee even if you buy products which were not tested on animals, at some point, in some products, one of the ingredients probably was). Many times the package states that the finished product wasn't tested. Also, animals will always be part of making medicine. Look at the biotech industry---great things are happening in healing people because of animals. I'm grateful to the animals for their role in possibly saving my own or my child's life someday. I'm just saying....
To play devil's advocate....I'm assuming that those who are so adamantly against dissecting cats have already given advance directive (legal) to donate their own body to science? I'm just saying....

You're just saying....what? That because no one has announced that they are donating their body to science, we can't question the relevance and ethics of dissecting cats to learn human anatomy? Not sure I follow.

It's true that you can't completely avoid animal testing in cosmetics, and definitely pharmaceuticals. But just because you can't win the war in one battle doesn't mean you can't fight the small battles. And personally, I find a huge difference between testing drugs on animals and giving A&P students something to cut up.

missmj · Nov 19, 2008

We don't have to dissect cats. We had to dissect sheep brains and eyes, but we don't get points for lab, so I just left and didn't do it.

I didn't read all the responses so I'm sure someone may have said this... but I would talk to your professor and see if there's anything else you can do. If you do get points for lab participation maybe you can work something else out... or if you can afford to, just loose the points altogether. I personally just couldn't dissect an animal.

pixie888 · Nov 19, 2008

Hi Tessa, I understand your angst. I am a huge animal lover, and I really don't agree with using cats (which were probably raised just for this purpose). I don't really like the idea of disecting any animal for this purpose unless they died of natural causes. It is unfortunate that we have to kill animals for learning. I guess the best advice I can give you is to just try and get through it. I know it will be upsetting, but it is just something you will have to overcome. Just try to remember that the cat would be used whether you were there or not. Just try to respect it and be grateful for the learning experience that it provides. It does get easier as you work on it. You really do stop thinking about the fact that it is a cat. I hope all goes well. You can do it.

back2thebooks · Nov 20, 2008

"You're just saying....what? That because no one has announced that they are donating their body to science, we can't question the relevance and ethics of dissecting cats to learn human anatomy? Not sure I follow."

Allow me to clarify for you, then. I'm just saying....put your money where your mouth is...that's all. If you are going to protest dissecting cats in A&P, I hope you are signed up to be a future cadaver for dissection. I am not in favor of cat dissection, by the way. I think it makes much better sense to dissect a human. Like I said, though...maturity and life experiences has taught me, personally, to choose my emotional battles wisely. There are some things you simply cannot change and will not change in life. I am a fighter---as tenacious as they come, but I've chosen to focus my efforts on other things. If you are passionate about this issue, kudos to you for being an activist! Just do it all the way and donate your own body. Maybe that's why there aren't more human dissections...not enough bodies.

getting in · Nov 20, 2008

I was able to petition the dept so that I did not have to do the disection. 2/3 of medical schools dont use animal disections, why do nurses?? Those cats are soaked in formeldahyde which is a carcinogenic. Do a little research on where the cats actually come from. Its very disturbing.