Hi, I'm Claire, new to teaching nursing, but not new to nursing. I'm hoping you folks can help me get the nerve to go back to work tomorrow. I worked really hard to explain the content, find questions suitable to a pre entry-level nurse, and still over half the class failed this last unit test! How much blame should an instructor take? Or is this reaction normal for the first year? I've already looked through my region's job postings--I'm that discouraged. Unfortunately for me, there's nothing that interests me. :uhoh21:
That's a rotten introduction to myself. Normally I'm a gung-ho, let's "get er dun" person. Love gardening, soon to be a grandma for the first time, happily married 28 years. Life's been fair enough. Till now.
The good thing about a forum is folks can be blunt cause they don't know you. Honesty is a great critic, and positive criticism is a great way to grow. Looking forward to getting to know you all. Claire
You really think students are going to avoid the work and not learn the material on the off chance that the majority are making the same choice? Maybe they're all getting together at the pizza place so they can talk about what they're not going to study so that HOPEFULLY they can all miss the same questions and they can get thrown out.
We're adults. We have a lot of time, sweat, tears, and money invested here. We are working really hard to achieve a career that means a lot to us. We are not interested in playing these games.
While all nursing students are chronologically adults, you must admit (and if you look at your classmates, you'll find at least one), there are some who do not share the same drive as you. Maybe those who do not have dropped out or failed out by now, (or maybe not). There are some, who are looking to do as little as possible and expect to sail through. I've seen this as a student and as an educator.
If the majority are missing a question there is a reason for it and thus, I agree with the remainder of your post. The grand conspiracy suggested in the first paragraph however just begged to be addressed.
While I can't locate the post about the 'conspiracy theory', I'll agree with the above comment, emphasis on the word majority. On my first test, I had a question that 2 or 3 students fought, while the others (total of 50 students) had no problem understanding or answering. While I'm very sorry for those who got it wrong, the majority of the class (including the upper 25% of the class) got it right. Therefore, it was a good question (btw, the ones who argued it were desperate for 2 more points). I think that my question made them think a little more, because it wasn't as obvious. You needed to know the manifestation of the disease to answer the question, and I did not state it in the stem of the question, and that was their argument.
In our school our easiest instructor demands the most of us. She really requires us to know a lot of content for each exam and there are extensive reading assignments that correlate. We call her our easiest instructor because she's organized, clear about her expectations, and designs questions that can be answered if we were present for lecture and have done the work she's assigned. In our school easy means if I work hard I can pass her test.
This is a very interesting description of an instructor. I aspire to be one of those. We do a review of our content prior to the test, and I practically stood there waving red flags and winking when it was a TQ hint. After I lectured (before the review) I looked back and though, gee I really didn't emphasize this, and it's going to be on the test. During the review, half of the class was completely ignoring me. Not my fault.
I do not and refuse to lecture "to the test." I did that when I was a novice educator. I feel I did a disservice to the students because I "spoon-fed" them.
I now approach all students as "adult learners." I inform the students that they are responsible for the module objectives. Unfortunately, there may not be enough time to thoroughly cover all of the objectives in lecture. Therfore, I give students case study handouts that they can complete outside of lecture. These case studies help them refine their critical thinking skills.
There are those students who continue to complain that the specific question(s) was (were) not covered in lecture. They want or need pedagogy styles of teaching/ learning. These students struggle through the program & have a difficult time with critical thinking.
The majority of the students are mature and earnest about being in a nursing program. These students seek out clarification if concepts are not clear. They are "responsible" learners and are a pleasure to have in the program. These are the students that I look foward to being my colleagues in the nursing profession.
I know you have the best of intentions ... but I think that is a TERRIBLE policy! With a policy like that, the students can chose to avoid the work and not learn the material. As long as a majority of students do a bad job, the school will let them slide. Abominable!
llg
I have to disagree with that! :angryfire There are times when a question is poorly worded, confused, or poorly structured. If most students miss a question, those questions most often fit in the above categories. Why penalize the student for the instructor's mistake?
I do not and refuse to lecture "to the test." I did that when I was a novice educator. I feel I did a disservice to the students because I "spoon-fed" them.
I now approach all students as "adult learners." I inform the students that they are responsible for the module objectives. Unfortunately, there may not be enough time to thoroughly cover all of the objectives in lecture. Therfore, I give students case study handouts that they can complete outside of lecture. These case studies help them refine their critical thinking skills.
There are those students who continue to complain that the specific question(s) was (were) not covered in lecture. They want or need pedagogy styles of teaching/ learning. These students struggle through the program & have a difficult time with critical thinking.
The majority of the students are mature and earnest about being in a nursing program. These students seek out clarification if concepts are not clear. They are "responsible" learners and are a pleasure to have in the program. These are the students that I look foward to being my colleagues in the nursing profession.
For the first time this year we were spoon fed by a new instructor. I still did all the assigned reading and assignments but when it came down to really studying for the test I focused only on her review sheet... I believe that is what is referred to as teaching to the test. I would agree, even though it made my life easy for two weeks, that this is NOT the way to go.
As a student I'm fine with everything not being covered in lecture as long as the instructor is very clear about what reading assignments etc... are required and... I really feel it's only fair that all questions should be answerable if you have done the assigned work.
While I can't locate the post about the 'conspiracy theory', I'll agree with the above comment, emphasis on the word majority. On my first test, I had a question that 2 or 3 students fought, while the others (total of 50 students) had no problem understanding or answering. While I'm very sorry for those who got it wrong, the majority of the class (including the upper 25% of the class) got it right. Therefore, it was a good question (btw, the ones who argued it were desperate for 2 more points). I think that my question made them think a little more, because it wasn't as obvious. You needed to know the manifestation of the disease to answer the question, and I did not state it in the stem of the question, and that was their argument.
It should work both ways, shouldn't it? If the majority are getting a question right because they understood what was being asked, knew they needed to apply some outside information, did so, and marked the correct response it's obvious that it was a good question for the group. In other words, the work they were required to complete during that module prepared them to answer that question. The others who were arguing may or may not have had a valid point that you may or may not have felt you wanted to address. Either way fairness should dictate that if the majority got it right for the reasons stated above, it's a good question.
This is a very interesting description of an instructor. I aspire to be one of those. We do a review of our content prior to the test, and I practically stood there waving red flags and winking when it was a TQ hint. After I lectured (before the review) I looked back and though, gee I really didn't emphasize this, and it's going to be on the test. During the review, half of the class was completely ignoring me. Not my fault.
Emphasis is always appreciated but I really think the bottom line is: Here's lecture, here's the reading assignment, here are the objectives, know that your test questions are going to address the objectives and use your powerpoints and reading assignments to prepare.
It was drilled into us from day one that we are adult learners responsible for our own education and that the instructors are only facilitators to that learning process. While I'm more than willing to take on that responsibility, the instructor that gives us broad categories to research on our own: peruse these websites, read anything you can find on this subject... etc... IMO is taking it a little too far.
Organization and structure, clear expectations for learning, and a lecture geared towards covering/explaining the more difficult topics are what help us.
I really feel it's only fair that all questions should be answerable if you have done the assigned work.
Instructors should state objectives prior to starting lecture. Students then know the "assigned work" when they review their module. The objectives may not be "neatly packaged" in one or two chapters. For one module, there were about 7 chapters to read in order to meet the objectives. BUT the student did not necessarily have to read the ENTIRE chapter, just a paragraph here and there. So, what is the best way to read to the objectives? Refer to the index. Hope this helps. Again, the "adult learner' has to take the responsibility for their learning. No one can force behaviors on others.
All exam questions are based on objectives. If questions are not, I feel that students have a legitimate grievance.
Instructors should state objectives prior to starting lecture. Students then know the "assigned work" when they review their module. The objectives may not be "neatly packaged" in one or two chapters. For one module, there were about 7 chapters to read in order to meet the objectives. BUT the student did not necessarily have to read the ENTIRE chapter, just a paragraph here and there. So, what is the best way to read to the objectives? Refer to the index. Hope this helps. Again, the "adult learner' has to take the responsibility for their learning. No one can force behaviors on others.
All exam questions are based on objectives. If questions are not, I feel that students have a legitimate grievance.
I can agree with the above. Not asking to have everything highlited, just tell me what the expectations are (as you did above) and it can remove an enormous amount of anxiety.
Now, since I'm beginning to feel like the student who's hijacked the educators' discussion, I'll back away and leave ya'll to it!
It has been my experience that many people who expect everything to be covered during the lecture portion of a class do not intend to do the reading themselves.
For those who haven't done the prep work outside the class, merely mentioning a topic or a concept during lecture isn't going to be enough. The instructor may bring up a term or an idea in order to put a number of pieces together or supply a context. This will pose no problem for those who have done their homework. But students who come to class with inadequate exposure to the material will be lost.
The instructor may have a well-organized presentation on the dynamics of diuresis, but it will be wasted on the student who is frantically flipping through her index trying to look up ADH.
As an educator of prenursing and sophomore nursing students, I am troubled by schools with a high attrition rate. Sure, some students aren't going to make it in any major or course or study. But when huge numbers of students fail, I wonder if the problem may lie in our expectations or in how programs are set up. Also when these students fail out, they have wasted a lot of time and money. Their failing grades may make it hard for them to transfer to another major.
Some thoughts:
1) Are students in high school being counseled into the right sequence of courses. I have seen many students who were tracked into CNA programs in high school as preparation for nursing, instead of taking science and math.
2) Can nursing content be well taught and learned in two (or even four) years?
3) The support available for nontraditional or low incomme students concerns me. The Health Manpower Training Act helped me thru school . Now I see students struggling to work 30 or more hours a week, just to stay in school. Some of they are even required to do so by their employer in order to qualify for educational reimbursement. These students don't perform to their ability, simply because they don't have enough time to study. I don't have an answer for this.
I hate to loose a student who really wants to learn and who would make a good nurse!
It has been my experience that many people who expect everything to be covered during the lecture portion of a class do not intend to do the reading themselves.
This quote made me chuckle. I had one student who would attend the various labs because he was afraid he was missing information that his own clinical instructor did not cover. He took time away from the students who were assigned to the labs. We put a stop to that. Told him that instructors have standardized lab presentations based on module objectives. And he needed to approach his clinical instructors about his concerns and questions.
Since he couldn't attend ALL the lab sessions, he then started meeting with ALL of the lab instructors before, after and in- between classes. He "shopped" for information, asking the same questions to more than one instructor. He spent long hours in the nursing building. But we rarely saw him studying at one of the alcoves.
After discussing his issues with the other instructors, we surmised that he wanted to have the "lectures' repeated over and over again so that he did not have to actually do the studying himself. This was one of the few times that I felt a student "sapping" the energy out of me.
Mind you, this student lived at home, rent free, did not work, Mom did all the chores. He was one of the fortunate students who could concentrate on the program without other outside worries.
Well, guess what, he dropped the program. Go figure! What a waste of student space. Thank goodness he was in the minority. Most of our students are self-motivated & responsible and a pleasure to have in the program.
ReinventingMyselfAgain, MSN, RN
1,954 Posts
While all nursing students are chronologically adults, you must admit (and if you look at your classmates, you'll find at least one), there are some who do not share the same drive as you. Maybe those who do not have dropped out or failed out by now, (or maybe not). There are some, who are looking to do as little as possible and expect to sail through. I've seen this as a student and as an educator.
While I can't locate the post about the 'conspiracy theory', I'll agree with the above comment, emphasis on the word majority. On my first test, I had a question that 2 or 3 students fought, while the others (total of 50 students) had no problem understanding or answering. While I'm very sorry for those who got it wrong, the majority of the class (including the upper 25% of the class) got it right. Therefore, it was a good question (btw, the ones who argued it were desperate for 2 more points). I think that my question made them think a little more, because it wasn't as obvious. You needed to know the manifestation of the disease to answer the question, and I did not state it in the stem of the question, and that was their argument.
This is a very interesting description of an instructor. I aspire to be one of those. We do a review of our content prior to the test, and I practically stood there waving red flags and winking when it was a TQ hint. After I lectured (before the review) I looked back and though, gee I really didn't emphasize this, and it's going to be on the test. During the review, half of the class was completely ignoring me. Not my fault.