Hello. I am considering NP and PA school. I have a few years of experience as an ED Tech in a Level 3 Trauma Center in California (busy, but not too intense). Our ED is staffed with PA's no NP's.
I have a few questions about clinical differences between NP's and PA's. I know that PA's seem to have a great ability to work in surgery specialties like ortho, neuro, peds, and cardio surgery. They do pre and post surgery exams, order interprets tests, and prescribe meds (at least in 47-49 states). Are there any NP's on this forum who do this? Are there any in California who can comment?
Second. I know that most PA schools have a much longer clinical component than do NP schools. I have been told it is because NP's already have so much clinical experience as nurses. But can you really compare the two? In our ED, the nurses are not making differential diagnoses, determining etiology of disease, etc. etc., they are monitoring the pt's overall state and response to the treatment ordered by the Physician (or sometimes PA). Therefore, does this experience compare to the rigorous training PA's get in diagnosing?
Part of my interest in medicine is the actual procedures themselves. I want to do chest tubes, central lines, suturing, first assistant surgery, etc. etc. Are there any NP's out there who are doing this?
Finally, I know some people (including some nurses) who deride the "nursing diagnosis" concept. Can anyone offer up a brief rationale for how nursing diagnoses are of value to an NP in clinical practice?
Emory University accepts students from biology majors as well as other non-medical fields and this is one of the best PA programs in the country, or at least in the South. I have looked at both PA and NP programs there and decided that NP was more appropriate choice for me personally. I know for a fact that NP's have more independance than PA's, and yes, there are clinics and practices run by NP's with a physician not present at that location. I am very proud to be a nurse. I was a pre-med student and my 1st degree was biology major/chemistry minor. However, I decided to go to school to become an RN instead, because I love what we stand for and what we do. Being NP will enable me to work closely with physicians and advance my knowledge and practice without compromising that which I love most - being a nurse!
The length of this thread interested me, and I thought I'd throw my two cents in.
I'm currently an ABSN student, former career Firefighter/Paramedic. Lotsa lame letters after my name.. boring..
To anyone considering a PA or NP, I would have to argue for the NP route solely based on the intense lobbying of the nursing community. I thought about PA school long and hard, it's a route many paramedics often take. The entire PA education was based on the knowledge and respect of former military Corpsman/Medics returning from Vietnam who did not have a comparable career to return home to. That's what is used to be..... Now one could easily argue that it has become the "med school drop-out" option, with many students entering with questionable prior medical experience... i.e. fresh out of school, lame volunteering experience, B.S. in Biology...yawn...
Yeah, some PA's/students will be angry at this post.. But believe me I know PA's/ PA students, came from a big PA state, (Michigan), and have examined the career thoughly... Regardless of what has been said about the growth of the PA profession... The AAPA is up against the battle hardenend, large in number, angry, academic nurse nazi's which are influencing government and health care policy. Best of luck to the AAPA and all my PA friends.. They really aren't very nice...
NP... it's the way to go... Why??? Numbers and lobbying.. Good or bad the nursing community is well organized, powerful, and the nursing schools are handing NP degrees out like they're candy... Rather disappointing, honestly... Most NP programs do not require or waive the GRE, have low GPA requirements
One only needs to look at the new DrNP program at Columbia to see (Columbia requires the GRE and decent grades/experience) where and how the plan to expand NP's and the entire field of nursing is progressing.... Like it or not the NP field is expanding rapidly and aggressively. As the saying goes... if you can't beat em, join em.
Of course if the DrNP is going to be the new standard... maybe MD or DO doesn't look so bad anymore...
IMO the GRE and all other college entrance exams are money making schemes. If someone has the GPA to get into a certain program they should be allowed in. I think my GRE for MSN was around 800 but I made almost a 4.0 for the program. Same for my MBA; I waited till I was in the program before I took GMAT...total waste of time and money.
have part-time
Who learns the most...someone taking a full time intensive program, having to memorize reams of info and staying up all night studying or someone who goes parttime sees a few patients and then has time to review their condition and "really learn." One is going to forget half of what they learn and it's not the parttime person. Take some learning or psychology of learning courses if you don't believe me.
or internet...INTERNET...really you are going to be a prescribing medications to REAL patients...INTERNET CLASSES!!!!
I'm doing a completely online FNP program from a well respected school. Do a google search for "benefits of online courses" before you knock it. I located over 40 of them. It's for adult learners and not those who have to be spoonfeed. I've done both and anyone who has to travel and sit in class is being very inefficient. The clinical is done like any other program.
Since when don't NP schools require GRE's. Mine did, as well as all of the other programs I am aware of. I am in New England with a wealth of NP schools and I don't know of one that doesn't require them. My program does not accept anyone with a total combined score of less than 1000, the reasoning behind this is twofold. First of all, the GREs supposedly predict how well you will do in graduate school, and secondly, you have to take boards at the end and they don't want to accept students who don't have a decent chance of passing standardized tests. Right or wrong, that is the thinking.
the nursing schools are handing NP degrees out like they're candy... Rather disappointing, honestly... Most NP programs do not require or waive the GRE, have low GPA requirements
I would have to disagree with you. NP degrees online? - Perhaps some schools offer some of the non-clinical classess online, but not the entire degree. To be honest, I am not very familiar with online degrees, because that was not something I wanted to do. Anyway, if they did give entire NP degree online, I am sure their graduates would not be able to sit for the boards for certification/licensure due to the lack of clinicals. So what would be the point?
What kind of a person would consider obtaining NP degree online (without actual clinicals) anyway? What kind of a school would offer NP degree completely online? What kind of organization would employ someone with entirely online NP degree? :uhoh21:
As to the requirements, I had to take GRE (or there was an option of taking MCAT), there was a requirement of a minimum of 3.0 GPA (althought very competetive) and at least 1 year acute RN experience. I had to write an essey and obtain at least 3 references, both academic and professional.
This was the standard at all NP programs I considered for my education.
As far as B.A./B.S. to MSN programs, there are bridge programs offered, however the idea is that the person with B.A./B.S. would have had to take all the pre-requisites (anatomy/physiology I & II, sciences, statistics, etc.) before enrolling into the program. This would allow for them to complete BSN degree fast (accellerated program 1 1/2 years) and they usually get summer semester off to take NCLEX-RN exam and obtain license. Only then they are permitted to continue with MSN degree. This is more of a convenience for someone who knows that they want to pursue MSN than a short cut. This way, there is only 1 application and 1 school involved.
Since when don't NP schools require GRE's. Mine did, as well as all of the other programs I am aware of. I am in New England with a wealth of NP schools and I don't know of one that doesn't require them. My program does not accept anyone with a total combined score of less than 1000, the reasoning behind this is twofold. First of all, the GREs supposedly predict how well you will do in graduate school, and secondly, you have to take boards at the end and they don't want to accept students who don't have a decent chance of passing standardized tests. Right or wrong, that is the thinking.
A fellow nurse peer did a study on the validity of the GRE and success in graduate school. What she discovered is that the GRE had no relationship to success in graduate school. GREs may predict how some do in graduate school, from what I understand nursing is not one of those.
Whether the GREs are a true reflection of the success of graduate nursing students was not my point. I don't know if they are or not. My point was, whether it 's right or wrong, that is the standard for acceptance into most NP programs. Someone else implied that it wasn't, and that the standards were much lower. I wanted to take the MCATs, but my program only accepted the GREs.
I would have to disagree with you. NP degrees online? - Perhaps some schools offer some of the non-clinical classess online, but not the entire degree. To be honest, I am not very familiar with online degrees, because that was not something I wanted to do. Anyway, if they did give entire NP degree online, I am sure their graduates would not be able to sit for the boards for certification/licensure due to the lack of clinicals. So what would be the point?
What kind of a person would consider obtaining NP degree online (without actual clinicals) anyway? What kind of a school would offer NP degree completely online? What kind of organization would employ someone with entirely online NP degree? :uhoh21:
As to the requirements, I had to take GRE (or there was an option of taking MCAT), there was a requirement of a minimum of 3.0 GPA (althought very competetive) and at least 1 year acute RN experience. I had to write an essey and obtain at least 3 references, both academic and professional.
This was the standard at all NP programs I considered for my education.
As far as B.A./B.S. to MSN programs, there are bridge programs offered, however the idea is that the person with B.A./B.S. would have had to take all the pre-requisites (anatomy/physiology I & II, sciences, statistics, etc.) before enrolling into the program. This would allow for them to complete BSN degree fast (accellerated program 1 1/2 years) and they usually get summer semester off to take NCLEX-RN exam and obtain license. Only then they are permitted to continue with MSN degree. This is more of a convenience for someone who knows that they want to pursue MSN than a short cut. This way, there is only 1 application and 1 school involved.
As I am sure you noticed when you researched online programs for Advanced Practice Nursing, you saw that as required by licensing boards, that “All” online programs (which there are many in existence) do have and require clinical experience of which the student finds and then coordinates with their school to complete in their town of residence. As to weather graduates of these programs are equals to traditional programs is anyone’s to say; however they are eligible so sit for licensing boards and if they pass it is no longer of any concern.
Furthermore, just because anyone chooses not to obtain an education via the “online” route does not make “online” educations any inferior to traditional educations. For some people “online” is a great and completely valid route to become educated. Some people including myself think that going to class for 2 and 3 hours to hear a teacher repeat everything that you can/are reading in the text book is a complete waste of time.
Oh, and one last thing, there are at least 100 schools in my favorites folder for APRN programs that do not require GRE sores.
Yes I also know that online programs require clinicals, however I'm not sure how that works, as compared to the more traditional programs. I know that I have clinical 3 days a week, and seminar with our instructors one day. We review our writeups weekly, as well as present case studies on our more challenging patients. We also have weekly lectures, which I find helpful b/c if you have a question, it can be answered right then and there. I do know of someone who did the online LPN to RN program through the Regents program in New York. I met her after she did the program. She told me that her clinical consisted of 2 full days in different specialties with an instructor evaluating her. I don't think that is enough. Her clinical skills were awful as an RN. I watched her draw up a flu vaccine to give IM in the deltoid to a thin woman with a 1 1/2" needle, and luckily, I was able to stop her before she injected into the humerus.
Yes I also know that online programs require clinicals, however I'm not sure how that works, as compared to the more traditional programs. I know that I have clinical 3 days a week, and seminar with our instructors one day. We review our writeups weekly, as well as present case studies on our more challenging patients. We also have weekly lectures, which I find helpful b/c if you have a question, it can be answered right then and there. I do know of someone who did the online LPN to RN program through the Regents program in New York. I met her after she did the program. She told me that her clinical consisted of 2 full days in different specialties with an instructor evaluating her. I don't think that is enough. Her clinical skills were awful as an RN. I watched her draw up a flu vaccine to give IM in the deltoid to a thin woman with a 1 1/2" needle, and luckily, I was able to stop her before she injected into the humerus.
Before this degrades to another "All Excelsior Grads Suck" thread, let's agree to this:
1. All programs have students who graduate and are stellar nurses on day one.
2. All programs have students who graduate and can't figure out which side of the band-aid goes does, even after 30 years on the floor treating patients.
Sorry, I was only responding to some off topic comments I guess. And yes I agree that programs graduate nurses of different abilities, levels of commintment and work ethics. This is true in any field, nursing or not. I think I actually talked about this in a earlier response when I was still on topic. I'll try to be more aware and stay on topic too. It's easy to get off track with so many opinions flying back and forth. At least this is consciousness raising to some degree, maybe.
SuzanaS
36 Posts
Emory University accepts students from biology majors as well as other non-medical fields and this is one of the best PA programs in the country, or at least in the South. I have looked at both PA and NP programs there and decided that NP was more appropriate choice for me personally. I know for a fact that NP's have more independance than PA's, and yes, there are clinics and practices run by NP's with a physician not present at that location. I am very proud to be a nurse. I was a pre-med student and my 1st degree was biology major/chemistry minor. However, I decided to go to school to become an RN instead, because I love what we stand for and what we do. Being NP will enable me to work closely with physicians and advance my knowledge and practice without compromising that which I love most - being a nurse!