Differences (Educative/Clinical) between NP & PA

Specialties NP

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Hello. I am considering NP and PA school. I have a few years of experience as an ED Tech in a Level 3 Trauma Center in California (busy, but not too intense). Our ED is staffed with PA's no NP's.

I have a few questions about clinical differences between NP's and PA's. I know that PA's seem to have a great ability to work in surgery specialties like ortho, neuro, peds, and cardio surgery. They do pre and post surgery exams, order interprets tests, and prescribe meds (at least in 47-49 states). Are there any NP's on this forum who do this? Are there any in California who can comment?

Second. I know that most PA schools have a much longer clinical component than do NP schools. I have been told it is because NP's already have so much clinical experience as nurses. But can you really compare the two? In our ED, the nurses are not making differential diagnoses, determining etiology of disease, etc. etc., they are monitoring the pt's overall state and response to the treatment ordered by the Physician (or sometimes PA). Therefore, does this experience compare to the rigorous training PA's get in diagnosing?

Part of my interest in medicine is the actual procedures themselves. I want to do chest tubes, central lines, suturing, first assistant surgery, etc. etc. Are there any NP's out there who are doing this?

Finally, I know some people (including some nurses) who deride the "nursing diagnosis" concept. Can anyone offer up a brief rationale for how nursing diagnoses are of value to an NP in clinical practice?

Thank you very much!

Specializes in Critical Care Nursing AKA ICU.
zenman said:
Before that he noticed that nurse midwives were not killing off as many patients as the docs because they were washing their hands between patients.

Okay fair enough.... but does that mean we have to take a full semester on theories about hand washing, the health belief model, Health promotion model, self-efficacy theory, stages of change theory, therapeutic alliance model, protection motivation theory, etc..... it just doesn't make sense to spend a semester on this crap:mad: when we can be learning other things that will REALLY help us in taken care of patients. YES these theories are important but again to spend a WHOLE SEMESTER is ********

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RNTwin said:
okay fair enough.... but does that mean we have to take a full semester on theories about hand washing, the health belief model, Health promotion model, self-efficacy theory, stages of change theory, therapeutic alliance model, proctection motivation theory, etc..... it just doesn't make sense to spend a semester on this crap:mad: when we can be learning other things that will REALLY help us in taken care of patients. YES these theories are important but again to spend a WHOLE SEMESTER is ********

I will point out that there is non-clinical training in the PA programs. All PA programs are required to have training on the history of the profession as well as coursework on contract negotiation, billing, coding, malpractice and the general healthcare environment. My program did one hour per week x 3 semesters (so three credits if it was measured that way) as well as transition to practice lectures (2-3 hours 1 x month) during clinicals. I actually looked forward to these since they were at a slower pace than the rest. Most of it was pretty practical (how to dictate, how to write a scrip etc).

David Carpenter, PA-C

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Like I said earlier I don't know what an appropriate mix of theory and other non-clinical courses would be. You have to remember though that a masters program has to prepare you to enter into a doctorate program...where you can learn even more "nursing science."

Some countries, even those who have health care ranked higher than our inefficient system, don't require their medical students to have 4 yrs of science...they go straight into medical school out of high school. However, I think we should require 4 yrs of liberal arts, then go into medical school. :smokin:

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Specializes in General.
core0 said:
I will point out that there is non-clinical training in the PA programs. All PA programs are required to have training on the history of the profession as well as coursework on contract negotiation, billing, coding, malpractice and the general healthcare environment. My program did one hour per week x 3 semesters (so three credits if it was measured that way) as well as transition to practice lectures (2-3 hours 1 x month) during clinicals. I actually looked forward to these since they were at a slower pace than the rest. Most of it was pretty practical (how to dictate, how to write a scrip etc).

David Carpenter, PA-C

I thought I was the only one who liked those kind of classes, I did take politics and nursing and found it quite interesting plus it gave me insight on promoting the mid level profession, how to speak up and be heard and not come off as a whiner who had no clue. Theory was required for when we did our thesis and i think theory and research just helps you be more analytical not just anal.

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Specializes in Critical Care Nursing AKA ICU.
zenman said:
Some countries, even those who have health care ranked higher than our inefficient system, don't require their medical students to have 4 yrs of science...they go straight into medical school out of high school. However, I think we should require 4 yrs of liberal arts, then go into medical school. :smokin:

I know many physicians that went straight into med school from high school, practicing here in the texas medical center, and they are exceptional doctors and a plethora of knowledge. this whole 4yrs of liberal arts is used to weed out potential applicants.

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RNTwin said:
I know many physicians that went straight into med school from high school, practicing here in the texas medical center, and they are exceptional doctors and a plethora of knowledge. this whole 4yrs of liberal arts is used to weed out potential applicants.

I agree - it is useless. I didn't gain anything from all the "general education" that I had to take. All the history (a duplicate of things I learned in high school), linguistics, worlds of music, fine art, art history, etc has benefited me how?? I think the 6 year MD/PharmD programs are great. You don't lose out on any of the relevant education - they just eliminate the 2 years of useless general education stuff that is irrelevant.

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RNTwin said:
I know many physicians that went straight into med school from high school, practicing here in the texas medical center, and they are exceptional doctors and a plethora of knowledge. this whole 4yrs of liberal arts is used to weed out potential applicants.

These direct entry programs from high school include your undergraduate education. They are usually 7 years. The 6 year programs run year round so there are no summers like in normal college.

In all honesty, these programs don't cut much off of the normal 8, just some intro english/history/arts requirements that many people going into college finished with AP classes.

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foreverLaur said:
I agree - it is useless. I didn't gain anything from all the "general education" that I had to take. All the history (a duplicate of things I learned in high school), linguistics, worlds of music, fine art, art history, etc has benefited me how?? I think the 6 year MD/PharmD programs are great. You don't lose out on any of the relevant education - they just eliminate the 2 years of useless general education stuff that is irrelevant.

Can you clarify which professional degree NP or PA that all those useless general education courses (stuff) did not apply ? thanks

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prairienp said:
Can you clarify which professional degree NP or PA that all those useless general education courses (stuff) did not apply ? thanks

I'll remind my patients tonight that the fact that I remember who founded the state of VA will surely assist in my patient care and be sure to thank my history professor for teaching me that. My class in morphology might prove very useful as well to patient care, but I'm not sure yet how to relate that. I'll have to get back with you on that.

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foreverLaur said:
I'll remind my patients tonight that the fact that I remember who founded the state of VA will surely assist in my patient care and be sure to thank my history professor for teaching me that. My class in morphology might prove very useful as well to patient care, but I'm not sure yet how to relate that. I'll have to get back with you on that.

So you think education exists for the sole purpose of you being able to do one thing...provide patient care. Your "education" is lacking. Sad, really sad.

Why don't you put 'benefits of liberal arts" in google and see what you get..."education", hopefully.

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zenman said:
So you think education exists for the sole purpose of you being able to do one thing...provide patient care. Your "education" is lacking. Sad, really sad.

If you are going into nursing, your education should teach you how to be a nurse. Can you explain to me how taking history for the 5th time in my life is going to make me a better nurse? Or maybe my linguistics class? Most the general education stuff isn't included in an ADN program - are they less of a nurse because of they didn't take history or linguistics? Are the 6 year MD programs putting out bad doctors because they skipped the gen ed?

If you could tell me how knowing what year Christopher Columbus found America will help me in nursing I would greatly appreciate it.

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foreverLaur said:
If you are going into nursing, your education should teach you how to be a nurse. Can you explain to me how taking history for the 5th time in my life is going to make me a better nurse? Or maybe my linguistics class? Most the general education stuff isn't included in an ADN program - are they less of a nurse because of they didn't take history or linguistics? Are the 6 year MD programs putting out bad doctors because they skipped the gen ed?

If you could tell me how knowing what year Christopher Columbus found America will help me in nursing I would greatly appreciate it.

As I said in a different thread, there are very, very few 6 year MD programs. Those that are there go year round so they really don't cut out much of the gen ed stuff. Furthermore, the people who have been accepted to these programs generally have almost a years worth of AP credits coming into college.

The Gen ed stuff is useful because it helps teach you critical thinking skills. I do agree with you somewhat though. If you are going to school for specialty education, it should be focused only on the specialty instead of general education.

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