Differences (Educative/Clinical) between NP & PA

Specialties NP

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Hello. I am considering NP and PA school. I have a few years of experience as an ED Tech in a Level 3 Trauma Center in California (busy, but not too intense). Our ED is staffed with PA's no NP's.

I have a few questions about clinical differences between NP's and PA's. I know that PA's seem to have a great ability to work in surgery specialties like ortho, neuro, peds, and cardio surgery. They do pre and post surgery exams, order interprets tests, and prescribe meds (at least in 47-49 states). Are there any NP's on this forum who do this? Are there any in California who can comment?

Second. I know that most PA schools have a much longer clinical component than do NP schools. I have been told it is because NP's already have so much clinical experience as nurses. But can you really compare the two? In our ED, the nurses are not making differential diagnoses, determining etiology of disease, etc. etc., they are monitoring the pt's overall state and response to the treatment ordered by the Physician (or sometimes PA). Therefore, does this experience compare to the rigorous training PA's get in diagnosing?

Part of my interest in medicine is the actual procedures themselves. I want to do chest tubes, central lines, suturing, first assistant surgery, etc. etc. Are there any NP's out there who are doing this?

Finally, I know some people (including some nurses) who deride the "nursing diagnosis" concept. Can anyone offer up a brief rationale for how nursing diagnoses are of value to an NP in clinical practice?

Thank you very much!

wowza said:
As I said in a different thread, there are very, very few 6 year MD programs. Those that are there go year round so they really don't cut out much of the gen ed stuff. Furthermore, the people who have been accepted to these programs generally have almost a years worth of AP credits coming into college.

The Gen ed stuff is useful because it helps teach you critical thinking skills. I do agree with you somewhat though. If you are going to school for specialty education, it should be focused only on the specialty instead of general education.

There really isn't that much Gen Ed in the 6 year BS/MD programs. I'm from NE Ohio so I'm familiar with NEOUCOM... was accepted myself (still kicking myself for not going) and I have a number of friends in the program.

I can understand the general education for liberal arts degrees, but if your degree is a practice degree... all the curriculum should be devoted to your degree. I'd rather the engineering majors take more engineering related coursework (or even gen ed type stuff geared towards engineering) instead of just the general stuff we already learned in HS.

Life would be REALLY nice of all gen ed was tailored to your major ?

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I think the more important point to take from Laur's posts are that gen eds comprise a minor part of the college major. They do not, as far as I'm aware, make up half or more of the credits of your major. There's no reason for a huge portion of your major to include topics unrelated to it. I do agree that the minor bit of gen eds do help "round out" a person heavily focused in the sciences though.

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I took 58 credit hours of psychology coursework. The remainder of my 123 quarter hours were general education and general electives. Out of 181 hours required for a bachelors degree, more than 32% of that should be degree specific, IMO.

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Specializes in Critical Care Nursing AKA ICU.
zenman said:
So you think education exists for the sole purpose of you being able to do one thing...provide patient care. Your "education" is lacking. Sad, really sad.

Why don't you put 'benefits of liberal arts" in google and see what you get..."education", hopefully.

WELL YA...isn't that why we're called healthcare professionals. general education is somewhat important but this country puts to much of an emphasizes on it...what good has it done, our school systems SUCK, Our kids rank pretty much LAST in math/science and pretty much every other subject. our school and even universities only pump out students that know very little of each subject that is "required" and hardly anything in the degree that they are seeking. pretty much,what you have is a society(of so-called "educated" people) that know hardly anything :yeah:

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foreverLaur said:
I took 58 credit hours of psychology coursework. The remainder of my 123 quarter hours were general education and general electives. Out of 181 hours required for a bachelors degree, more than 32% of that should be degree specific, IMO.

Really? Hmm, I guess I stand corrected. I have never really encountered anyone whose major consisted primarily of gen eds completely unrelated to the major. I myself had far more credit hours in classes related to my major than I did with gen eds.

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RNTwin said:
WELL YA...isn't that why we're called healthcare professionals. general education is somewhat important but this country puts to much of an emphasizes on it...what good has it done, our school systems SUCK, Our kids rank pretty much LAST in math/science and pretty much everyother subject. our school and even universities only pump out students that know very little of each subject that is "required" and hardly anything in the degree that they are seeking. pretty much,what you have is a society(of so-called "educated" people) that know hardly anything :yeah:

All undergrad degree programs include courses "unrelated" to your major. This is to increase your fund of information and vocabulary and make you "educated." This fund of information is also one of the things we in mental health evaluate in order to determine your general level of intelligence. The fact that you might know that the Inka were as civilized as Europeans because they used quipus doesn't mean that you should not learn it because it has nothing to do with your career choice.

Yes, our school system sucks. Luckily, I got out before they started teaching kids to just pass standardized tests. Your undergrad degree is also not designed to make you an expert and teach you everything that is "required." It's to teach you the basics and a little background to get you started as a beginner in the workplace.

Last time I checked business CEOs loved liberal arts majors because they were "educated" people who had a large fund of information and critical thinking skills. They could then teach them what was needed in the workplace.

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I'm not again general education coursework. I'm against it being 70% of your bachelors degree like mine was. I think that ratio should be switched. 70% of your coursework should be major related and 30% should be general education.

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Specializes in Critical Care Nursing AKA ICU.
zenman said:
All undergrad degree programs include courses "unrelated" to your major. This is to increase your fund of information and vocabulary and make you "educated." This fund of information is also one of the things we in mental health evaluate in order to determine your general level of intelligence. The fact that you might know that the Inka were as civilized as Europeans because they used quipus doesn't mean that you should not learn it because it has nothing to do with your career choice.

Yes, our school system sucks. Luckily, I got out before they started teaching kids to just pass standardized tests. Your undergrad degree is also not designed to make you an expert and teach you everything that is "required." It's to teach you the basics and a little background to get you started as a beginner in the workplace.

Last time I checked business CEOs loved liberal arts majors because they were "educated" people who had a large fund of information and critical thinking skills. They could then teach them what was needed in the workplace.

I see what your saying, but we're here to TAKE CARE OF PEOPLE HEALTH ISSUES not teach them lessons in history or art...

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Specializes in General.
RNTwin said:
I see what your saying, but we're here to TAKE CARE OF PEOPLE HEALTH ISSUES not teach them lessons in history or art...

I agree that we are here to take care of health issues, but we are taught to treat the patient as a whole not just the disease. I don't know how many times I was able to have a conversation with a pt about politics,literature, history or government and not be blowing smoke out my *ss. Having at least some basic understanding of things not related to the disease puts patients at ease and they realize they are just not the gallbladder or heart pt in room 202. I know they appreciate it.

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I don't understand how being able to discuss literature and government with patients will determine the quality of care you provide.

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Specializes in Critical Care Nursing AKA ICU.
dgenthusiast said:
I don't understand how being able to discuss literature and government with patients will determine the quality of care you provide.

Agree...

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Specializes in General.
dgenthusiast said:
I don't understand how being able to discuss literature and government with patients will determine the quality of care you provide.

i never said that those things will determine the quality of care I provide, what I am referring to is not just treating the patient as just a disease but taking into account the whole person, and being able to have a intelligent conversation about things that they have an interest in. maybe I am just too sensitive that way. the quality of the care I provide is based on my clinical knowledge and expertise and pt outcomes. But it looks like this is off subject so on my next post I make sure I discuss the educative clinical differences between NP/PA sorry about that moderators.

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