Did this nurse behave unethically?

[subee]

What do nurses think about this nurse reporting on this patient who was indicted  for manslaughter? She was eventually exonerated on charges.   I think she should be reported to the Ohio BON for a violation of patient privacy.  

[floydnightingale]

I can't imagine having enough free time that I'd think about following up on the product of a miscarriage.

[toomuchbaloney]

nightwingcreations said:

"The nurse broke no laws by sending the police to the home to recover the contents of abortion; the fetus. " Really? Would it not be a HIPAA violation to tell the police that a patient had a MISCARRIAGE????? Also do you believe that someone goes around collecting the remains from all the miscarriages women have? Evidently every woman who has flushed or otherwise disposed of a miscarriage should be charged with a crime now? This country is going to hell  in a hand basket. ?

This is what conservatives in that state want, they voted for it and that nurse was happy to go along.  Roughly 1 in 5 women in this country right now need to travel out of their home state if they need an abortion.  Some states are trying to obstruct that travel, even.   

The maternal morbidity and mortality coupled with the child poverty in those deeply red and restrictive states brings handmaids, not hand baskets, to mind. 

[chare]

toomuchbaloney said:

This is what conservatives in that state want, they voted for it and that nurse was happy to go along.  Roughly 1 in 5 women in this country right now need to travel out of their home state if they need an abortion.  Some states are trying to obstruct that travel, even. 

[...]

Which law exactly is it that made Ms. Watt's spontaneous abortion illegal?

[toomuchbaloney]

chare said:

Which law exactly is it that made Ms. Watt's spontaneous abortion illegal?

That's an interesting spin. 

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/20/texas-abortion-law-miscarriages-ectopic-pregnancies/

[chare]

toomuchbaloney said:

That's an interesting spin.

[...]

Spin?  How so?  I'm not the one that continues to refer to this as an abortion, without noting that it was a spontaneous, not induced, abortion.

And, while there isn't consensus on terminology, a number of organizations, to include the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists refer to spontaneous abortions as either miscarriage or stillbirth, depending on whether it occurs prior to or after completing 20 weeks gestation.  It's my understanding that use of this terminology is partially based on the stigma many associate with induced abortion.  And yet you continue to use the term abortion.  Why?

toomuchbaloney said:

[...]

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/20/texas-abortion-law-miscarriages-ectopic-pregnancies/

How exactly does Texas abortion ban have any bearing in Ohio?  Although I have to admit, it was one heck of a deflection.  And, I found it interesting that Texas, a state with one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country do not consider treatments for "spontaneous abortions" and ectopic pregnancies as abortions.

Quote

Treatments for miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies are still legal under the state's abortion ban, according to state law and legal experts. But the statutes don't account for complicated miscarriages, and confusion has led some providers to delay or deny care for patients in Texas.

Texas laws banning abortions make narrow exceptions only to save the life of a pregnant patient or prevent "substantial impairment of major bodily function.” And lawmakers in recent years have clarified state statutes to say treatments for miscarriages, known as "spontaneous abortions" in medicine, and ectopic pregnancies, in which a fertilized egg grows outside of the uterus and becomes unviable, do not count as abortions.

[...]

 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

floydnightingale said:

And a sideways photo at that. 

Sorry to digress but what's with these emails with pictures that literally take up three or more pages worth of space which has to scrolled through? Is it just a problem with Chrome or do you need to fire your web admin?

Chrome wasn't the problem.  The website had the wrong issue posted for that week so I had to send the photo from the actual magazine.  I did try to correct the sideways but failed not once but twice which was pretty humiliating.  But I notice that you didn't comment on the issue at hand.  Feel free to start a gofundme for a new phone!

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

chare said:

Spin?  How so?  I'm not the one that continues to refer to this as an abortion, without noting that it was a spontaneous, not induced, abortion.

And, while there isn't consensus on terminology, a number of organizations, to include the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists refer to spontaneous abortions as either miscarriage or stillbirth, depending on whether it occurs prior to or after completing 20 weeks gestation.  It's my understanding that use of this terminology is partially based on the stigma many associate with induced abortion.  And yet you continue to use the term abortion.  Why?

How exactly does Texas abortion ban have any bearing in Ohio?  Although I have to admit, it was one heck of a deflection.  And, I found it interesting that Texas, a state with one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country do not consider treatments for "spontaneous abortions" and ectopic pregnancies as abortions.

 

That's what Texas says on paper but applying their words into practice is problematic for physicians since it isn't easy to diagnose an induced abortion from a missed AB.  In either scenarios the cervix is open.  I had an interview thus afternoon on NPR from a senator in Tennessee who us trying to re-write his own bill to harshly restrict abortion but now is trying to unwind the damage he has done.  Fortunately he is a retired physician and has almost fully functioning brain.   A high risk OB in Tenn was also interviewed and she is afraid to take care of patients who need abortions for fear of imprisonment.  Idaho no longer has a high risk OB left in the state.  Having a baby in Idaho has become a nightmare if one develops a serious complication.  

  

[darnold38, BSN, RN]

I think risk management, the doctors and the nurse involved need training on the difference between miscarriage and abortion. I think all involved were being very obtuse. A woman has a miscarriage and she's arrested?? What was she supposed to do to stop the miscarriage, slap her legs together and stand on her head? I swear, health care today is becoming a bigger joke by the day. 

[toomuchbaloney]

chare said:

Spin?  How so?  I'm not the one that continues to refer to this as an abortion, without noting that it was a spontaneous, not induced, abortion.

And, while there isn't consensus on terminology, a number of organizations, to include the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists refer to spontaneous abortions as either miscarriage or stillbirth, depending on whether it occurs prior to or after completing 20 weeks gestation.  It's my understanding that use of this terminology is partially based on the stigma many associate with induced abortion.  And yet you continue to use the term abortion.  Why?

How exactly does Texas abortion ban have any bearing in Ohio?  Although I have to admit, it was one heck of a deflection.  And, I found it interesting that Texas, a state with one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country do not consider treatments for "spontaneous abortions" and ectopic pregnancies as abortions.

 

I use the term because I am pushing a point.  

The Texas ban is relevant because it is instructive in the directing right wing extremists want to take these laws.  Texas law is relevant because it's already demonstrated that their exemption language doesn't protect women in need of care, it provides political coverage for politician's. 

Texas law has quite famously risked women's lives and required them to travel out of state for care.  

darnold38 said:

I think risk management, the doctors and the nurse involved need training on the difference between miscarriage and abortion. I think all involved were being very obtuse. A woman has a miscarriage and she's arrested?? What was she supposed to do to stop the miscarriage, slap her legs together and stand on her head? I swear, health care today is becoming a bigger joke by the day. 

The problem is healthcare that is dancing around politicians, religious fanatics and insurance companies.  

[JohnHood, BSN]

The reporting nurse violated HIPAA.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

JohnHood said:

The reporting nurse violated HIPAA.

If the state decides that having an abortion is a crime, HIPAA doesn't apply because of the crime.  I have no idea why this nurse reported on a patient who had a missed AB.  Maybe the nurse reported on the patient for mutilating a corpse.  At any rate, this person added to the misery in the world.

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

chare said:

Which law exactly is it that made Ms. Watt's spontaneous abortion illegal?

It was not the spontaneous Abortion that was specifically mentioned in the article. It was the way she handled the products of conception.