In general orientation after everyone has completed their health forms before lunch. After lunch the IC nurse is reviewing the forms and pipes up to the group (consisting of all departments not just nursing) "So Amanda, you haven't had the covid vaccine?" Gee Riley, is that a discussion for the whole group? "Well on Fridays all staff can go without masks and wear vaccinated tees that we gifted them with and there's a check mark sticker on their badge so everyone will know anyway." I respond oh, OK. No snark no sarcasm. Riley gets edgy and goes on a 5 minute rant that starts with don't you care about your patients you took an oath and ends with flu season is coming, how well do you think it will go for you if you get COVID, the flu and rsv at once? No response given because I felt that the entire exchange was unprofessional and chose to not participate.
1. I am not a crybaby or snowflake. I am a vet and have been doing this a long time. I don't react out of feelings and this seemed overboard.
2. An employer has the right to set any rules they like. This includes the free I'm vaccinated tees and going maskless on Fridays. The check ✔ on the badges feels a little red A to me but still their choice.
3. Does the average nurse here think this tactic is OK? I understand wanting every nurse to choose vaccination but is trying to publicly embarrass them OK as well?
I welcome all points of view but name calling and insults aren't welcomed or tolerated. Thanks guys.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
3 hours ago, underpressure said:
NO ONE has "ignored the deaths and disabilities of others". No one said anything remotely implying that. Why does it inspire so much contempt in others that some people might be reluctant to take a vaccine that has unknown side effects? Are you saying VAERS is just 100% BS? That there is zero validity to people's reported side effects? The fact is that this vaccine is new. It's not like the other vaccines that have been around for decades and have been observed and proven to be, for the most part, safe. The covid vaccine is new. We DON'T know what the ramifications are. That's not fear mongering. That's a FACT. People should have every right to not be shamed into taking something that they know very little about.
It's disturbing that supposed health professionals are caught up in vague suspicion and fear mongering and use those fears to justify not vaccinating during a deadly pandemic. If you don't know enough to understand that the vaccines are safer than risking infection you can change that by reading the science. If you choose ignorance and fear over facts and information you will be the focus of shaming because (as a health professional) you should know better.
It's disturbing that supposed health professionals are caught up in vague suspicion and fear mongering and use those fears to justify not vaccinating during a deadly pandemic. If you don't know enough to understand that the vaccines are safer than risking infection you can change that by reading the science. If you choose ignorance and fear over facts and information you will be the focus of shaming because (as a health professional) you should know better.
Go ahead and be disturbed. You didn't even acknowledge what I said. You just keep pushing the party line of shaming people with your "You should know better" phrases. But to address your latest comments, you are correct that "vaccines are safer than risking infection" when you're talking about MMR, varicella, tetorifice, flu, etc. But you don't know what the side effects will be from the covid vaccine. No one does. That's not "choosing ignorance and fear", that's being cautious. And that's anyone's right. Screw your attempts at shaming. I've read your answers to people in this thread, and there's a consistent theme in your tone. You don't leave any room for anyone to have any opinions that don't match yours. You are a bully. How about you feel ashamed of yourself for a minute.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 minutes ago, underpressure said:
Go ahead and be disturbed. You didn't even acknowledge what I said. You just keep pushing the party line of shaming people with your "You should know better" phrases. But to address your latest comments, you are correct that "vaccines are safer than risking infection" when you're talking about MMR, varicella, tetorifice, flu, etc. But you don't know what the side effects will be from the covid vaccine. No one does. That's not "choosing ignorance and fear", that's being cautious. And that's anyone's right. Screw your attempts at shaming. I've read your answers to people in this thread, and there's a consistent theme in your tone. You don't leave any room for anyone to have any opinions that don't match yours. You are a bully. How about you feel ashamed of yourself for a minute.
Nonsense.
I'm under no obligation to acknowledge fears that are based in ignorance and misinformation. You don't know what the side effects are apparently, but I've reviewed the data and science and I have a comfortable understanding and appreciation of the common and expected side effects from vaccination. That's on you.
No, "caution" doesn't describe the choice to risk infection, disease, illness, death, long term symptoms or spread of a pandemic because you are scared of the science and data which describes the safety and efficacy of vaccines. "Caution" is what inspires people to vaccinate even when they feel they may not be at high risk personally.
I don't care that folks spreading unfounded fears about a necessary vaccine find my comments uncomfortable...in fact that's a good thing. If anti-vaxxers feel a little bit bullied because their attempts to normalize fear mongering and bad critical thought is hampered in the digital realm...that is a good thing. Maybe you'll get so uncomfortable with having your flawed judgement openly discussed that you'll stop spreading nonsense during the pandemic.
I'm under no obligation to acknowledge fears that are based in ignorance and misinformation. You don't know what the side effects are apparently, but I've reviewed the data and science and I have a comfortable understanding and appreciation of the common and expected side effects from vaccination. That's on you.
No, "caution" doesn't describe the choice to risk infection, disease, illness, death, long term symptoms or spread of a pandemic because you are scared of the science and data which describes the safety and efficacy of vaccines. "Caution" is what inspires people to vaccinate even when they feel they may not be at high risk personally.
I don't care that folks spreading unfounded fears about a necessary vaccine find my comments uncomfortable...in fact that's a good thing. If anti-vaxxers feel a little bit bullied because their attempts to normalize fear mongering and bad critical thought is hampered in the digital realm...that is a good thing. Maybe you'll get so uncomfortable with having your flawed judgement openly discussed that you'll stop spreading nonsense during the pandemic.
I'm NOT an antivaxxer. Not even a little bit. Also, I'm not uncomfortable, sorry, nor do I find your comments uncomfortable. ? I find them judgey as hell though, which is kind of amusing I guess. I don't mind my comments being openly discussed. Maybe we should all ask more questions of those things that we don't have answers. Surely when it comes to our health, we have that right. Which brings me back to my point. We all have the right to choose what we want to do. Which apparently makes YOU uncomfortable. I've also reviewed the science and data (the little bit of it that there is) and I'm NOT comfortable. And yeah, that's on me. But that's OK. But I will re-state my whole argument is that people have the right to get vaccinated or not. Without judgement. Period.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 hours ago, underpressure said:
I'm NOT an antivaxxer. Not even a little bit. Also, I'm not uncomfortable, sorry, nor do I find your comments uncomfortable. ? I find them judgey as hell though, which is kind of amusing I guess. I don't mind my comments being openly discussed. Maybe we should all ask more questions of those things that we don't have answers. Surely when it comes to our health, we have that right. Which brings me back to my point. We all have the right to choose what we want to do. Which apparently makes YOU uncomfortable. I've also reviewed the science and data (the little bit of it that there is) and I'm NOT comfortable. And yeah, that's on me. But that's OK. But I will re-state my whole argument is that people have the right to get vaccinated or not. Without judgement. Period.
Shrugs
Normalizing fear about safe and effective vaccines is your game here...
You don't get to decide what is judged and what is not judged . Bad judgment about vaccinating which is based in fear mongering and bad comprehension of sound science is definitely fair game for discussion and judgement...even if those promoting such things "feel" bullied by the push back.
You must not get the point that if people want to base their decisions not to vaccinate upon unfounded fears and nonsense they should either keep those reasons to themselves or be prepared to discuss the validity or absurdity of the reasons. It's probably smartest to make dumb decisions privately if you don't want to be troubled to defend them publicly.
Normalizing fear about safe and effective vaccines is your game here...
You don't get to decide what is judged and what is not judged . Bad judgment about vaccinating which is based in fear mongering and bad comprehension of sound science is definitely fair game for discussion and judgement...even if those promoting such things "feel" bullied by the push back.
You must not get the point that if people want to base their decisions not to vaccinate upon unfounded fears and nonsense they should either keep those reasons to themselves or be prepared to discuss the validity or absurdity of the reasons. It's probably smartest to make dumb decisions privately if you don't want to be troubled to defend them publicly.
You're the one who's not getting the point. People want to base their decisions on whether or not to get vaccinated on valid research. I haven't seen enough of that, and there are plenty of other people, millions in fact, that feel the same way. No crime, shame, or "game" in that.
"Dumb decisions"? "Bad judgement"? I think the dumbest decision and bad judgement I've made so far is discoursing with you on this subject. You obviously have no clue. And there's nothing for me to "defend". I've made no assertions other than the fact that we don't know enough about the vaccine to shame people into taking it if they don't want to. Have you been able to look in to the future and see what effect it will have on people?
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
A reminder from the Terms of Service:
Quote
We promote the idea of lively debate. This means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite. Additionally, please refrain from name-calling. This is divisive, rude, and derails the thread.
Our first priority is to the members that have come here because of the flame-free atmosphere we provide. There is a zero-tolerance policy here against personal attacks. We will not tolerate anyone insulting other's opinion nor name calling.
toomuchbaloney
16,026 Posts
It's disturbing that supposed health professionals are caught up in vague suspicion and fear mongering and use those fears to justify not vaccinating during a deadly pandemic. If you don't know enough to understand that the vaccines are safer than risking infection you can change that by reading the science. If you choose ignorance and fear over facts and information you will be the focus of shaming because (as a health professional) you should know better.