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Did you just TRY to bully me?

Updated | Posted

Has 27 years experience.

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In general orientation after everyone has completed their health forms before lunch. After lunch the IC nurse is reviewing the forms and pipes up to the group (consisting of all departments not just nursing) "So Amanda, you haven't had the covid vaccine?" Gee Riley, is that a discussion for the whole group? "Well on Fridays all staff can go without masks and wear vaccinated tees that we gifted them with and there's a check mark sticker on their badge so everyone will know anyway." I respond oh, OK. No snark no sarcasm. Riley gets edgy and goes on a 5 minute rant that starts with don't you care about your patients you took an oath and ends with flu season is coming, how well do you think it will go for you if you get COVID, the flu and rsv at once? No response given because I felt that the entire exchange was unprofessional and chose to not participate.

1. I am not a crybaby or snowflake. I am  a vet and have been doing this a long time. I don't react out of feelings and this seemed overboard.

2. An employer has the right to set any rules they like. This includes the free I'm vaccinated tees and going maskless on Fridays. The check ✔ on the badges feels a little red A to me but still their choice.

3. Does the average nurse here think this tactic is OK? I understand wanting every nurse to choose vaccination but is trying to publicly embarrass them OK as well? 

I welcome all points of view but name calling and insults aren't welcomed or tolerated. Thanks guys.

londonflo

Specializes in oncology. Has 44 years experience.

On 7/8/2021 at 4:42 PM, Conqueror+ said:

I don't react out of feelings and this seemed overboard.

No, you are reacting out of feelings. What would you see as the solution to this? What vaccines are you in agreement as being required? and of course your rationale for refusing the covid vaccine. 

Just as an example. what vaccines would you think are required for those taking care of a close relative?

Bottom line...what did you REALLY EXPECT from an orientation where we all fill out our tax forms, SS# numbers, health insurance plans etc.   If you were called by name for not filling a tax form, would you feel differently? You are in a GROUP orientation but want individual counseling.....

I gotta tell you I have taught for 40 plus years and dealing with a group is like herding cats....The first one you need to talk to is the first one OUT THE DOOR

On 7/8/2021 at 4:42 PM, Conqueror+ said:

The check ✔ on the badges feels a little red A to me but still their choice.

The Scarlett Letter is a great book!

Conqueror+, BSN, RN

Has 27 years experience.

I don't understand your response. I did complete the health form. The vaccine is optional with this employer. I also don't understand the cat comment in relation to this situation but thanks for commenting.

londonflo

Specializes in oncology. Has 44 years experience.

Sorry  if I understood. I thought you were resenting the fact that you hadn't had the covid vaccine revealed to everyone. (the scarlet A comment)  I was trying to say that when dealing with forms and large groups it is very hard to get completeness without mentioning those who have not been complete.

22 hours ago, Conqueror+ said:

In general orientation after everyone has completed their health forms before lunch. After lunch the IC nurse is reviewing the forms and pipes up to the group (consisting of all departments not just nursing) "So Amanda, you haven't had the covid vaccine?" Gee Riley, is that a discussion for the whole group? "Well on Fridays all staff can go without masks and wear vaccinated tees that we gifted them with and there's a check mark sticker on their badge so everyone will know anyway." I respond oh, OK. No snark no sarcasm. Riley gets edgy and goes on a 5 minute rant that starts with don't you care about your patients you took an oath and ends with flu season is coming, how well do you think it will go for you if you get covid, the flu and rsv at once? No response given because I felt that the entire exchange was unprofessional and chose to not participate.

1. I am not a crybaby or snowflake. I am  a vet and have been doing this a long time. I don't react out of feelings and this seemed overboard.

2. An employer has the right to set any rules they like. This includes the free I'm vaccinated tees and going maskless on Fridays. The check ✔ on the badges feels a little red A to me but still their choice.

3. Does the average nurse here think this tactic is OK? I understand wanting every nurse to choose vaccination but is trying to publicly embarass them OK as well? 

I welcome all points of view but name calling and insults aren't welcomed or tolerated. Thanks guys.

The IC nurse was doing his/her job.  Unvaccinated nurses put patients amd vulnerable staff at risk and perpetuate the effects of the pandemic in the community.  

JBMmom, MSN

Specializes in Long term care; med-surg; critical care. Has 9 years experience.

Perhaps this person was overly sensitive to the issue for some personal reason. I think initially the issue coming up in a group setting was probably just to clarify your status, which I wouldn't really find a problem with. However, as you said there was a bit of a rant after your response, that's where an unprofessional aspect comes in. You have chosen not to be vaccinated for whatever reason and that is your right. No one else is even entitled to know why, but you will also face judgment from some after what everyone has endured for the past 18 months or so. Sounds like you've got your big kid pants on and you can handle it, but that person should probably leave their personal opinions out of a professional setting. 

Conqueror+, BSN, RN

Has 27 years experience.

It wasn't a clarification ask, it was a "do tell, explain to the class" ask. When I wouldn't elaborate he got ticked off. I get it I just don't agree with the tactic. I don't do anything to my fellow nurses I wouldn't do to a patient. 

NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN

Has 19 years experience.

On 7/8/2021 at 4:42 PM, Conqueror+ said:

In general orientation after everyone has completed their health forms before lunch. After lunch the IC nurse is reviewing the forms and pipes up to the group (consisting of all departments not just nursing) "So Amanda, you haven't had the covid vaccine?" Gee Riley, is that a discussion for the whole group? "Well on Fridays all staff can go without masks and wear vaccinated tees that we gifted them with and there's a check mark sticker on their badge so everyone will know anyway." I respond oh, OK. No snark no sarcasm. Riley gets edgy and goes on a 5 minute rant that starts with don't you care about your patients you took an oath and ends with flu season is coming, how well do you think it will go for you if you get covid, the flu and rsv at once? No response given because I felt that the entire exchange was unprofessional and chose to not participate.

1. I am not a crybaby or snowflake. I am  a vet and have been doing this a long time. I don't react out of feelings and this seemed overboard.

2. An employer has the right to set any rules they like. This includes the free I'm vaccinated tees and going maskless on Fridays. The check ✔ on the badges feels a little red A to me but still their choice.

3. Does the average nurse here think this tactic is OK? I understand wanting every nurse to choose vaccination but is trying to publicly embarass them OK as well? 

I welcome all points of view but name calling and insults aren't welcomed or tolerated. Thanks guys.

Going maskless on Fridays???? Um, we either need the mask or we don’t. The day of the week shouldn’t have a damn thing to do with it.

And that confrontation was so not called for on many levels….

Just another reason why I do not miss hospital nursing….

Edited by NurseSpeedy

NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN

Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion. Has 44 years experience.

I fully understand your concern about being singeled out and explanation requested in front of class.  Many orientation programs ask for eval of program---make sure your concern listed on eval.

Daisy4RN

Specializes in Travel, Home Health, Med-Surg. Has 20 years experience.

On 7/8/2021 at 2:42 PM, Conqueror+ said:

I felt that the entire exchange was unprofessional and chose to not participate.

This was absolutely unprofessional behavior on his part, not the time or place and obviously not just simply asking. This guy needs to check himself!

7 hours ago, NurseSpeedy said:

Going maskless on Fridays???? Um, we either need the mask or we don’t. The day of the week shouldn’t have a damn thing to do with it.

And that confrontation was so not called for on many levels….

Just another reason why I do not miss hospital nursing….

Couldn't agree more!! Why is this organization and person so focused on the vaccines but letting people run around maskless on Fridays, just stupid.

 

7 hours ago, NRSKarenRN said:

Many orientation programs ask for eval of program---make sure your concern listed on eval

Wouldn't do it, it will only hurt you!

CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN

Specializes in Community health. Has 3 years experience.

Sure, the IC nurse was being unprofessional. And?  I sort of feel like most adults— especially in healthcare but probably in most fields— learn to roll with it. Just ignore it  

This week I sent a message to one of our primary care APRNs that went like this: “Our BH therapist was wondering whether X would be appropriate for this patient?” And I got back a response like this: “IF THEY ARE CONCERNED they should ORDER IT THEMSELVES!!!  Do NOT involve me in this patient’s psychiatric care!  THANK YOU!!”  It was inappropriate and unprofessional. *shrug*. Of course, I felt a flare of anger because she was disrespectful, but I’m not going to give myself a stroke over it. If I experienced a daily pattern of verbal abuse, that’s different. But your IC nurse making a scene once?  Shrug it off. 

Daisy4RN

Specializes in Travel, Home Health, Med-Surg. Has 20 years experience.

16 minutes ago, CommunityRNBSN said:

Sure, the IC nurse was being unprofessional. And?  I sort of feel like most adults— especially in healthcare but probably in most fields— learn to roll with it. Just ignore it  

This week I sent a message to one of our primary care APRNs that went like this: “Our BH therapist was wondering whether X would be appropriate for this patient?” And I got back a response like this: “IF THEY ARE CONCERNED they should ORDER IT THEMSELVES!  Do NOT involve me in this patient’s psychiatric care!  THANK YOU!!”  It was inappropriate and unprofessional. *shrug*. Of course, I felt a flare of anger because she was disrespectful, but I’m not going to give myself a stroke over it. If I experienced a daily pattern of verbal abuse, that’s different. But your IC nurse making a scene once?  Shrug it off. 

While I agree that the person in your scenario was also unprofessional and used unnecessary snark I disagree that this is analogous to the OPs scenario. There is probably more history involved with the parties in your scenario and at the very least are already 2 employees speaking to each other. In the OPs case the OP is in a subordinate position and the IC nurse should be making/setting a good example of professionalism for all the new hires, not being unprofessional himself (which IMO he clearly was). Unprofessionalism should never be condoned or expected to be the norm but I do agree for colleagues sometimes it is best to just roll with it and let it go, depending on the situation.

Conqueror+, BSN, RN

Has 27 years experience.

3 hours ago, CommunityRNBSN said:

Sure, the IC nurse was being unprofessional. And?  I sort of feel like most adults— especially in healthcare but probably in most fields— learn to roll with it. Just ignore it  

This week I sent a message to one of our primary care APRNs that went like this: “Our BH therapist was wondering whether X would be appropriate for this patient?” And I got back a response like this: “IF THEY ARE CONCERNED they should ORDER IT THEMSELVES!  Do NOT involve me in this patient’s psychiatric care!  THANK YOU!!”  It was inappropriate and unprofessional. *shrug*. Of course, I felt a flare of anger because she was disrespectful, but I’m not going to give myself a stroke over it. If I experienced a daily pattern of verbal abuse, that’s different. But your IC nurse making a scene once?  Shrug it off. 

I didn't come close  to "having a stroke over it". After stints in psych, military hospitals and corrections it takes A LOT to even get on my radar. I just wanted the opinions of fellow nurses. It felt like another shift in nursing where the value and view of nurses is changing once again. 

Edited by Conqueror+

Yes.  Nurses used to value vaccinations and public health recommendations...current vaccine reluctance could certainly be seen as a change in the values and views of nurses. IMV

Daisy4RN

Specializes in Travel, Home Health, Med-Surg. Has 20 years experience.

10 hours ago, Conqueror+ said:

I just wanted the opinions of fellow nurses. It felt like another shift in nursing where the value and view of nurses is changing

You are right, the value and view of nurses by admin has significantly changed over the years. And obviously and unfortunately that has also changed by some fellow nurses as well. We should all be entitled to do what we feel is best for our personal situation without being dehumanized and devalued, and esp when those doing it have no clue about anothers personal situation.

I still agree that your IC nurse was completely unprofessional and also unnecessarily rude! I hope it was just him and not how this particular environment rolls all the time.

 

MunoRN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care. Has 10 years experience.

I would disagree that in a healthcare setting, vaccination status is a "personal" rather than "professional" topic.  A choice that presents the risk of avoidable harm to patients and other staff is not just "personal".  Issues of patient safety and public health in general are not something any nurse should expect to be immune from (no pun intended).

 

Conqueror+, BSN, RN

Has 27 years experience.

On 7/11/2021 at 6:16 PM, MunoRN said:

I would disagree that in a healthcare setting, vaccination status is a "personal" rather than "professional" topic.  A choice that presents the risk of avoidable harm to patients and other staff is not just "personal".  Issues of patient safety and public health in general are not something any nurse should expect to be immune from (no pun intended).

I understand. I didn't take issue with my vaccination status being discussed, I took issue with saying 3 times during the interview and offer that it was a "personal choice" and "something we don't push on anyone" because "nurses are people first" only to have him attempt this.

I spent my time sacrificing my life, family time and image on the altar of nursing and I'm done. I have valid personal reasons for not taking it and I'm not ashamed. I'm a nurse but I don't owe nursing my life. Thanks for your reply. 

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