Diabetes treatment and why success does not pay

Specialties Endocrine

Published

I am insulin dependent diabetic and have a vested interest in this topic but I am interested in hearing the experiences and opinions of my peers on this topic. For the past three days, the New York Times has run a series of articles regarding the cost of diabetic care, the impact on the city and the diabetics themselves, programs tried and one that is currently being funded by a grant. For those interested, go to their website to read the complete articles.

We all know that there has been an increase in weight, in most adults and children. And we are aware of the fact that there has been a corresponding increase in the number of Type II diabetics. We are also seeing an increase in the hospitalization of those suffering from complications of their poorly controlled diabetes. What most of us fail to realize is the following:

1. Approximately 90% of diabetics are managed by their PCP.

2. Most PCP average eight to ten minutes a visit with their diabetic patients.

3. Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance re-reimburse less for the education and preventive care, then they do for the acute care such as amputations.

4. Most diabetics receive hit and miss education about their disease.

5. Many diabetic do not look at the long term complications, not being able to focus 10 or 20 years down the road.

6. Most diabetic are unaware of the importance of theirA1c test and its importance.

Several hospitals have opened diabetic centers where their outpatients meet in groups with diabetic educators and nutritionists. And they have access to endocrinologist, ophthalmologists and podiatrist. Studies have shown in improvement in the health of those attending such programs, weight loss, reduction in A1c percentage, improved nutrition and lessening of the number of complications. All three types of patients, Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance attend these programs. Now, one would think that with such proof, everyone would be willing to fund such programs. Guess what? No, no no. All but one, at Columbia has been forced to close its doors because of the loss of dollars. Apparently all three forms of coverage would rather spend its money on complications.

What does everyone think? Do you think that one or two education sessions are enough? Do you think it is a matter entirely of personal responsibility? That the people are responsible for the management of their own disease? Do some blame the diabetic for any complication he/she develops because if they managed their disease better they wouldn't suffer complications? How do you feel about the poor funding for the management of a chronic disease like diabetes?

Like I said, I am an insulin dependent diabetes, who also suffers from hypertension and asthma. I suffered a TIA in 1998 and it scared me. I became an insulin dependent diabetic in 2001. I have a problem with controlling my blood sugar because, one I love a drink of regular soda once a day and two I have to take prednisone, which effects my blood sugar. I fortunately have not suffered any complications although I have been a diabetic for fifteen years. Am I responsible for my high blood sugar by drinking that regular soda. Or can I lay the blame on my prednisone. Actually I think it is both. And I am dependent on my SIL for one meal a day, which tends to be high in carbs. What do you all think? Do you think, as a nurse I should be able to do what I have taught other diabetics?

Grannynurse:balloons:

I have to hurry or I'll be late for work.

There's always some cost associated w/ diabetes. Diabetics have to use a glucometer, strips etc.

CMS has been doing demo projects in selected states and areas for management of diabetes for 2 years or so now. I beleive they have moved from demo projects to the next step: pilot programs. Education will play a large part of these programs. Dieticans will be a part of these programs. As well as podiatrists and pharmacists.

So hopefully, these programs will be picked up and be made available in all states.

Grannynurse, I have lost 3 aunts and an uncle to the complications of diabetes, I have another uncle who is in a nursing home after suffering a stroke with his diabetes and my mother is disabled due to compliations of her diabetes. Oh yeah and my mother is a nurse also. Trust me, I am very well acquainted with the costs financial, physical and emotional of that particular disease. And since I am at high risk to develop diabetes myself, I have an acute interest in it so I can assure you that there was nothing belittling in my point of view.

I did not mean that anyone is looking for a quick fix or a pill, only that as a society we tend to respect technology more than the natural option. And as far as patient education, from what I can see it is only in the past 5-10 years that we have learned so much about preventing both diabetes and its progression when in the past, it was all about deprivation.

The lessons we know about diabetes now are too late for my mother and her siblings so I certainly don't blame them for not having enough willpower. I don't blame anyone and I don't look at it as a matter of responsibility. If you look at my first response, I stated that there is not a sense of urgency about diabetes from the medical community and I believe the general public picks up on that. It is not an easy disease to deal with, which is why I am desperate to prevent it for myself.

I am truly sorry for having offended some, especially my last response, last hight. Actually, down here in my neck of the woods, diabetic education is still left to one visit as an inpatient from the dietican for a ten minute or less learning session-yes I timed mine. Some times I am asked if I wish to give my own NPH but that is a rare occurance. And never my finger sticks. Nothing is ever mentioned about my eyes or feet. And never any education from the nursing staff or even an offer of education, that I could turn down if I wanted. And there is very little available in my community for new or long standing diabetics. And waiting in line, for my medications, you would be surprised at the number of Type II diabetics I meet. And their complaints or misinformation they have about their disease.

You are correct in your assessment that there is not a sense of urgency in the medical community or for that matter, the general community. It only hits when it is diagnosed. Unfortunately for the ten to twenty years a person has been developing and suffering from this very silent disease, it is also impacting on their body. And a lot of our medical and nursing community forgets this. And there are many of the suffers from Type II who are the first in their family with the diagnoses. They don't have a family knowledge to fall back on. I am the first one, on either side of my family, going back three generations.

This is truly a very silent disease, with limited resources currently available and not yet a top priority. Instead of criticizing us, please offer us more education, give us a chance to accept it or turn it down. Help us lobby our community facilities for more education and inexpensive group support. Teach us how to use the internet, to go on line to obtain more education and diet advice. You would be surprised at how many do not have a clue of how to go on line. Or that they can thru their public liabaries. Go over our diet, incorporating our food likes and dislikes, cost, giving us the opportunity to accept or turn down your help. And make the offer each time we are hospitalized.

Thanks.

Grannynurse

I have to hurry or I'll be late for work.

There's always some cost associated w/ diabetes. Diabetics have to use a glucometer, strips etc.

CMS has been doing demo projects in selected states and areas for management of diabetes for 2 years or so now. I beleive they have moved from demo projects to the next step: pilot programs. Education will play a large part of these programs. Dieticans will be a part of these programs. As well as podiatrists and pharmacists.

So hopefully, these programs will be picked up and be made available in all states.

I believe this is the program I have been contacted about. I sure hope so.

Grannynurse

Retraining does not mean rearranging. :clown:

We acquire tastes for things. Salt for one. You can retrain yourself to lighten up on the salt by slowly reducing the amount you use.

Many cultures don't use sugar and salt like we do. Their tastebuds are the same as ours. They have just been "trained" to taste what they are used to.

If we are raised on non-fat milk and never tasted whole milk, we would never know the difference.

The aftertaste of diet soda is not noticed by me anymore - I do remember it initially. My husband still doesn't notice it unless he thinks about it.

We do actually get used to certain flavors - otherwise we would all still be eating as children - Kraft Macaroni and Cheese and hot dogs and hamburgers. I'd have never tried sauted mushrooms as a child but I tried them as a teenager and liked them right away. Other things took awhile - I used to hate onions but I love them now.

I think you can retrain your tastebuds - desensitize them to things.

Rearranging your taste buds on your tongue - no.

steph

I managed to do it. I was one of those "I would NEVER drink diet soda, they're disgusting!" people. I loved my regular sugar filled coke. Nothing better after a walk with the dog or on my break on a busy night.... I gave it up altogether for a while then just made myself drink the diet when I started having soda again and I don't miss it a bit. A lot of people were shocked because I always had a Coke in my hand:chuckle My name's Tracy and I'm addicted to Coke...

I managed to do it. I was one of those "I would NEVER drink diet soda, they're disgusting!" people. I loved my regular sugar filled coke. Nothing better after a walk with the dog or on my break on a busy night.... I gave it up altogether for a while then just made myself drink the diet when I started having soda again and I don't miss it a bit. A lot of people were shocked because I always had a Coke in my hand:chuckle My name's Tracy and I'm addicted to Coke...

And what about those of us, that for a variety of reasons, including our own innate weakness, are not able to ever adjust our taste buds? Are we just weak and totally lacking in self-restraint and responsibility? Are you not assuming that just because you are able to do so, everyone should be able to do so as well? I realize that I started this discussion as a means of learning what my peers thought of diabetics, their problems with their disease, of suggestions on how to deal with a variety of problems I and others face daily. What has transpired it not exactly what I expected. I expected some to hold all diabetic responsible for their own control of their disease and was not disappointed. I expected to read some worth while suggestions, something that I have generally been disappointed in. And some of my peers, who suffer the same challenges that I do and I thank them for their responses. One of my peers has taken the challenge of educating her own peers and patients. I applaud her and am encouraged and encourage her. How about instead of applauding yourselves on your backs, you offer us some realistic suggestions on how to deal with our diet and exercise problems. I posted that request last evening and am still waiting for a response.

Grannynurse

Specializes in Geriatrics/Oncology/Psych/College Health.
I managed to do it. I was one of those "I would NEVER drink diet soda, they're disgusting!" people.

Ditto hubby. When we met, his college diet consisted of daily runs to either the Varsity or Juniors in downtown Atlanta for daily double cheeseburgers and fries. Early on in our marriage, a lentil nut loaf nearly ended it lol. Slowly, over time, he has altered his diet in ways I could never have hoped for. He went to skim milk, diet sodas, and is now trying to get off soda altogether. We are both mostly-vegetarians (we'll eat meat when there's no other choice if we're somewhere besides home.) The vast majority of my meals are some bean or whole grain derivative. It's cheap.

As to the original posts, we have FABULOUS diabetic educators here. There are a number of intractable misconceptions held by members of our population, however, regarding diabetes. I offer friendly assistance to an elderly gent whom I have mentioned here from time to time. He is diabetic and has been for a number of years, as was his mother. He refuses to use any area of his body for insulin injections except his abdomen. His logic: people who use the tops of their legs have to have their feet amputated. Circulation problems exist in the hands of people he knows that are diabetic and inject in the backs of their arms. His logic is that "they can't cut off my belly." He also complains about "the bumps" in his abdomen (from not rotating sites.) Have I tried to explain these fallacies? You bet :rolleyes: 'til I'm blue in the face.

We have tried to explain the notion of carbohydrates - he figures if the word "sugar" isn't high on the list of ingredients, he's fine. White bread, fine, high fat, high calorie meals, fine, as long as there's no "sugar" in it. Takes his insulin 1-2 hours AFTER he eats and then takes his blood sugar and is irritated because it's high ("I don't think they make the insulin as strong as they used to.") Thinks he's on insulin because "the doctors hooked me on it - I used to use pills, and they started giving me insulin, now I have to use it.) This is not the only person I have heard these things from - just an example of what providers fight against. Yes - he has been educated. Repeatedly. He's not demented. He's stubborn and fixed in his ways and will not deviate.

C/o eye problems. Explained problems with diabetic neuropathy. Won't get a dilated eye exam (no charge to him) to determine if it's his known cataracts, or whether there's more significant underlying damage. Says the last time he had one done everything was fine (15 years ago...)

I guess my point of all this is, it's not necessarily always our failure to educate; sometimes it's the patients' refusal to hear it.

Today is the last article, in the NYT and it dealt with children and the rise in Type II. What I was surprised to learn was one of the studies show that Asians, who generally do not develop the type of belly fat we do (and which is a warning sign) are twice as likely to develop the disease as a white man of similar weight. Also many older Asians are unlikely to test their blood sugars because of a belief that blood is life essence and should not be lost..

Also they address the lack of require P.E. And the selling of high sugar snacks and drinks in schools. Think this is only a NYC problem? Think again. The expanding Asian population is spreading across this country.

Grannynurse

when you do some research on the web, we all know that one link leads to another and another....inevitably we find sources that we weren't looking for in the 1st place.

when i was in nsg school, some diseases we would cover in a week.

when we learned about diabetes, we studied it for 2 semesters!

anyway, a few interesting links....

http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp

http://www.niddk.nih.gov/

http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/PatientResAllCateg/Diabetes?OpenDocument

leslie

And what about those of us, that for a variety of reasons, including our own innate weakness, are not able to ever adjust our taste buds? Are we just weak and totally lacking in self-restraint and responsibility? Are you not assuming that just because you are able to do so, everyone should be able to do so as well? I realize that I started this discussion as a means of learning what my peers thought of diabetics, their problems with their disease, of suggestions on how to deal with a variety of problems I and others face daily. What has transpired it not exactly what I expected. I expected some to hold all diabetic responsible for their own control of their disease and was not disappointed. I expected to read some worth while suggestions, something that I have generally been disappointed in. And some of my peers, who suffer the same challenges that I do and I thank them for their responses. One of my peers has taken the challenge of educating her own peers and patients. I applaud her and am encouraged and encourage her. How about instead of applauding yourselves on your backs, you offer us some realistic suggestions on how to deal with our diet and exercise problems. I posted that request last evening and am still waiting for a response.

Grannynurse

Wow, I don't think your response really is in line with what I was saying at all. Am I saying all those who don't do what I do are weak? No. Do I expect all people to live perfectly? No, I certainly don't live perfectly. I'm just sharing what worked for me. I shared that because I never thought I could give up my regular Coke vice but managed to do it. So maybe some people who think they could never change their habits can see that they may be able to do that too (if it's something that they want to do).

As to suggestions for living well, I didn't add much because I think most of us know what we have to do. It's the doing that's so hard. I've struggled with weight for a long time and what finally worked for me was structure and changing my environment. I would only buy diet soda and healthy snacks and not bring any change with me to work so that I couldn't buy regular coke or candy bars from the vending machines. I also told some of my friends of my plan to stop drinking coke and eating so much junk food so that if I was ever tempted, the knowledge that they would be on my back served as a little extra incentive. I don't even really miss any of it often. I'll have a candy bar here and there, but not every single night. There are a lot of good snacks out there that aren't bad for you (I especially like yogurt, fruit cups, trail mix and jello) and I found a lot of drinks out there other than soda aren't bad either. I still don't drink much water at all, so that's something I may work on next. That or increasing the amount of calcium I get... As for exercise, I think the old suggestion of just doing what you can is the best advice. A lot of people have health challenges that severely limit their activity and I wouldn't expect any of them to run a marathon. My grandpa certainly wasn't going to do that on his one good leg, but he was good about lifting light weights while watching the television. It was a small thing, but any small thing is good IMO.

And you know what? I am gonna give myself a pat on the back for changing one little thing that was important TO ME. Why shouldn't I feel good about accomplishing one little goal that will improve my health? Rather than chastise me, I would think you would be happy for me. Here's my happy dance:

when you do some research on the web, we all know that one link leads to another and another....inevitably we find sources that we weren't looking for in the 1st place.

when i was in nsg school, some diseases we would cover in a week.

when we learned about diabetes, we studied it for 2 semesters!

anyway, a few interesting links....

http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp

http://www.niddk.nih.gov/

http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/PatientResAllCateg/Diabetes?OpenDocument

leslie

Thanks

Grannynurse

Wow, I don't think your response really is in line with what I was saying at all. Am I saying all those who don't do what I do are weak? No. Do I expect all people to live perfectly? No, I certainly don't live perfectly. I'm just sharing what worked for me. I shared that because I never thought I could give up my regular Coke vice but managed to do it. So maybe some people who think they could never change their habits can see that they may be able to do that too (if it's something that they want to do).

As to suggestions for living well, I didn't add much because I think most of us know what we have to do. It's the doing that's so hard. I've struggled with weight for a long time and what finally worked for me was structure and changing my environment. I would only buy diet soda and healthy snacks and not bring any change with me to work so that I couldn't buy regular coke or candy bars from the vending machines. I also told some of my friends of my plan to stop drinking coke and eating so much junk food so that if I was ever tempted, the knowledge that they would be on my back served as a little extra incentive. I don't even really miss any of it often. I'll have a candy bar here and there, but not every single night. There are a lot of good snacks out there that aren't bad for you (I especially like yogurt, fruit cups, trail mix and jello) and I found a lot of drinks out there other than soda aren't bad either. I still don't drink much water at all, so that's something I may work on next. That or increasing the amount of calcium I get... As for exercise, I think the old suggestion of just doing what you can is the best advice. A lot of people have health challenges that severely limit their activity and I wouldn't expect any of them to run a marathon. My grandpa certainly wasn't going to do that on his one good leg, but he was good about lifting light weights while watching the television. It was a small thing, but any small thing is good IMO.

And you know what? I am gonna give myself a pat on the back for changing one little thing that was important TO ME. Why shouldn't I feel good about accomplishing one little goal that will improve my health? Rather than chastise me, I would think you would be happy for me. Here's my happy dance:

I would applaud you, if you didn't consistently hawk what you have accomplished. Great, your friends supported your effort. I have my family. Their support consist of reminding me of the amount of soda I drink a week. My SIL is a good cook but he tends to use starches, gravies and sauces in almost all of our evening meals. I restrict my meal size but it still adds the pounds on. What do you suggest I do? I can't tell him what to cook. For one thing he wouldn't listen. I am somewhat successful in cutting down my soda, from 7 2 liter bottles a week to three. Want to pat me on the back? And your exercise suggestion, using your grandpa. I applaud him. But your suggestion doesn't help me or others much. Did any one actually take the time to read my physical limitations. Ever stop and think about why those with physical disabilities have trouble controlling their weight? For everyone who is successful, there are nine with problems. Guess they lack the self responsibility and motivation. I would really like some real suggestions on how to improve my activity level, taking into consideration my physical limitations and problems Or perhaps I should just do the happy dance

Grannynurse

I would applaud you, if you didn't consistently hawk what you have accomplished. Great, your friends supported your effort. I have my family. Their support consist of reminding me of the amount of soda I drink a week. My SIL is a good cook but he tends to use starches, gravies and sauces in almost all of our evening meals. I restrict my meal size but it still adds the pounds on. What do you suggest I do? I can't tell him what to cook. For one thing he wouldn't listen. I am somewhat successful in cutting down my soda, from 7 2 liter bottles a week to three. Want to pat me on the back? And your exercise suggestion, using your grandpa. I applaud him. But your suggestion doesn't help me or others much. Did any one actually take the time to read my physical limitations. Ever stop and think about why those with physical disabilities have trouble controlling their weight? For everyone who is successful, there are nine with problems. Guess they lack the self responsibility and motivation. I would really like some real suggestions on how to improve my activity level, taking into consideration my physical limitations and problems Or perhaps I should just do the happy dance

Grannynurse

I didn't realize replying to a thread was constantly hawking my accomplishments. I have a long way to go as far as living healthy goes, but I guess my ego is just too big. Sorry about bothering you with it, I won't post again on this thread after this one.

The difference between the two of us is yes, I would applaud you for cutting down on soda intake because that's an accomplishment. Cutting out half of your soda intake is a big deal and not easy to do.

Well from what you say, I guess there is nothing more you can do to improve your health since you can't change your diet or incorporate any more physical activity. Sorry I couldn't give you great suggestions for healthier living. Maybe since you know yourself better than anyone else possibly could, the answers will have to come from you and not some strangers on a bb.

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