Design the Ideal Nurse

Nurses General Nursing

Published

We had a thread recently about what ADN grads could do vs BSN grads. Let's change course and knowing what we know about today's workplace, design the ideal entry level RN. First, I found the below blurb from the NLN interesting:

History of the National League for Nursing (NLN)

Supporting Nursing Education for over a Century

1893 - The American Society of Superintendents of Training Schools for Nurses is created. This is the first organization for nursing in the United States of America. The society is formed for "the establishment and maintenance of a universal standard of training" for nursing. Ever since that remarkable stroke of courage and spirit over 100 years ago, the National League for Nursing has continued to be the leading professional association for nursing education.

http://www.nln.org/aboutnln/info-history.htm

Looks like this is something that has been going on for a while!!

This is free-style so just start throwing out what you think re nursing education, general education, length of program, clinical, skills, types of tests, etc.. Then, when we're finished, someone will compile it all together. Not me...I'm just getting the ball rolling. Maybe we can do it in less than 100 years!

To help, I've listed program info from NSU school of nursing in Louisiana because it has ADN, BSN, and MSN programs. I've included info from the Baton Rouge Hospital School of Nursing, also in Louisiana. You can list info from each, for ex., if you think something from the MSN program needs to be taught for entry level education, put it in. If you think something from other fields needs to be included, do so. If someone has a brief blurb about diploma and BSN history, please put it in. My books are packed in preparation for a move next week and this computer at work is so slow, I can't stand it!.

Associate Degree in Nursing

A two-year technical degree nursing education program that prepares graduates for basic nursing care in hospitals and long term care settings. Four semesters of clinical are offered at Shreveport and Leesville.

Purpose

The purpose of the Associate Degree program is to provide education experiences and opportunities, which enable persons to practice nursing within the identified roles of the associate degree nurse. General academic courses in English, Mathematics, Social and Natural Sciences provide the foundation for the nursing courses. Upon completion of the course of study, the graduate is eligible to write the National Council for Licensure Exam for R.N. (NCLEX-RN).

Program Objectives

Graduates of the Associate Degree Program of the College of Nursing will be prepared to:

1. Provide nursing care founded upon selected scientific principles utilizing the nursing process.

2. Assist clients to achieve dynamic equilibrium by facilitating the satisfaction of needs.

3. Communicate effectively with clients, their significant others, health care team members and citizen groups to promote, maintain and restore health.

4. Teach clients and/or significant others who need information or support for health.

5. Manage selected aspects of nursing care for a group of clients with clearly defined health problems.

6. Demonstrate accountability for actions as members of the nursing profession and expand individual knowledge and skills through avenues of continuing education.

History

Developed by Mildred Montag from her doctoral thesis, The Education of Nursing Technicians. Started at Columbia University, Teachers College in 1952.

Bachelor of Science in Nursing

A four-year professional nursing education program that includes liberal arts education preparing graduates for beginning nursing practice in a wide variety of settings including acute and long term care, community and school health and critical care. After three semesters of academic courses and acceptance into clinical courses, students must complete five semesters of clinical courses on the Shreveport campus.

Purpose

The role of the beginning professional nurse continues to encompass three broad areas.

1. Provider of direct and indirect care to individuals, families, groups, communities, and populations.

2. Designer, manager, and coordinator of care.

3. Member of a profession.

Program Objectives

To implement the role of the beginning professional nurse which includes providing care for individuals, families, groups, and communities the graduate will be able to:

1. Integrate theory from nursing, the arts, humanities, and sciences to provide culturally sensitive care in the global community.

2. Apply the nursing process using critical thinking, communication, assessment, and technical skills.

3.Collaborate with clients and other members of the interdisciplinary health care team for health promotion, risk reduction, disease prevention, disease management, and health restoration.

4. Utilize information and health care technologies in nursing practice.

5. Integrate research findings to promote evidence based nursing practice.

6. Incorporate knowledge of economic, legal, ethical, and political factors influencing health care systems and policy to advocate for recipients of nursing care.

7. Apply principles of leadership to design, manage, coordinate, and evaluate health care delivery.

8. Demonstrate professional nursing standards, values, and accountability.

9. Assume responsibility for professional development and lifelong learning.

Master of Science in Nursing

This program provides the student with a Bachelor of Science in Nursing the opportunity to develop advanced knowledge, intellectual skills and clinical competence necessary for the role of the advanced practice nurse. Areas of concentration include: Acute Care Nurse Practitioner (ACNP), Adult Nursing Critical Care Nursing of the Adult, Family Nurse Practitioner (FNP)

Maternal-Child Nursing, Mental Health-Psychiatric Nursing, Pediatric Nurse Practitioner (PNP), Neonatal Nurse Practitioner (NNP) and Women's Health Nurse Practitioner (WHNP).

Master's Curriculum Purpose

The Graduate Studies and Research in Nursing Program's purpose is: to provide learning opportunities for development of knowledge, intellectual skills, and clinical competence necessary to fulfillment of the role for the practice of advanced nursing, to provide learning opportunities for the development of skills and knowledge to function as an educator, an administrator, a clinical nurse specialist, or a nurse practitioner and to furnish a foundation for doctoral study

Program Objectives

1. Practice nursing utilizing advanced knowledge and skills as evidenced by scientific thinking in the use of theoretical formulations in the design of nursing interventions, and self-direction in the exercise of leadership involving health care problems.

2. Consider cultural diversity of clients and practice within ethical principles and standards.

3. Function as an advanced practitioner of nursing with people of all ages and their families, utilizing critical decision making, logical thinking and reasoning through advanced knowledge, skills and clinical application.

4. Demonstrate independent-thought and action, professional autonomy, and effective communication in collegial and collaborative relationships with peers and with members of allied disciplines.

5. Function independently in providing nursing care and interdependently with other health professionals in the coordination and delivery of health care to individuals, families and communities.

6. Implement effective strategies for management and utilization of health information to improve quality of care, contribute to the development of nursing knowledge, and facilitate interdisciplinary communication in support of the business of health care delivery.

7. Implement the research process within the context of Evidence-Based Practice as a producer and consumer of research evidence to contribute to nursing theory and improve nursing practice.

8. Analyze the needs of health care delivery systems at the national, state, and local level, and evaluate and/or prescribe nursing's present and emerging role in these systems.

9 Function as a consumer advocate in the delivery of health care by utilizing knowledge of the sociocultural, economic, and political forces which influence the health of humankind.

10. Analyze strategies to effect change relevant to the nursing profession and the health of humankind for the betterment of health care and the improvement of nursing education and nursing practice at the local, state, and national level.

11. Utilize knowledge of organizational behavior and role theory for the delineation and development of a functional role consonant with individual career goals.

12. Implement professional standards of practice by serving as a role model in the demonstration of responsibility and accountability to clients, to the nursing profession, and to society.

13. Continue learning through further graduate study and/or other avenues for post master's education.

BATON ROUGE GENERAL MEDICAL CENTER SCHOOL OF NURSING

The mission of the school of nursing is to prepare registered nurses for entry-level practice. The nursing program will prepare the graduate to practice nursing safely and effectively as a novice in a generalist setting. The graduate nurse accepts responsibility for continuing the process of personal and professional growth in the advancement from novice to expert. Faculty members expect the graduate to serve as a positive role model in the practice setting by promoting principles of heathful living and participating in the process of bring healing to the sick. The program provides graduates with a foundation to accept responsibility to develop and maintain their expertise in practice and accountability to the public.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Randy: So you are saying to not finish an ADN in 2 years or a BSN in 4 equals a lack of ambition? WOAH you are asking for someone to flame you here. But don't don the Kevlar for me....Just let me say: I worked my tushie off to get my ADN and NO way could I finish in 2 years. It was impossible, the way it was set up. Just plain IMPOSSIBLE. Do you realize, most ADN programs want you to have ALL your pre-req's done BEFORE allowing you to enter their nursing program? You can apply to every program in town, and they all work this way at least in my experience.

So let's add up the time needed---- and you see it is far more than 2 years. I know some BSN's work the same way. Considering that, how the HECK do you think anyone can finish (ambition notwithtstanding) in the requisite time frames you describe? Oh, And it incorporated MORE than 60 hours getting my ADN-----I had nearly 80 hours in THAT transcript when I was done. Matter of fact, I earned a separate associate's degree waiting to get IN! Sad truth is, I would have been better off to continue on to a BSN if only the nearest BSN program were not 80- plus miles away. But that is another thread. All I can say is I think that was a presumptious to judge how fast someone completes a program by ambition. But hey, maybe I am just being sensitive.....Nonetheless......

My remarks about the misleading nature of those programs descriptions stand--- time requirements/constraints considered. They need revision to be accurate. Please read the rest of my prior post to see what I tried to tell you first time around. I won't waste bandwidth repeating it. Thank you. Have a good evening.

student jumping into the fray, the "2 yr" degree is not possible at our community college because you must complete the 3 semester Anatomy/physiology (plus other prereqs such as chem and psych etc..) before you are eligible for selection. The selection only happens in fall and in spring so if you aren't finished with your classes by that time you are even farthe behind. Add to the mix the fact that many of us have been waiting over a year to even get into the A/P classes and you can see how the myth of the "2 yr" degree is a sore subject with many of us. I personally agree with BSN as a standard for future nurses (for reasons i have stated in other threads) but have to take issue with the whole "2 yr" degree thing. It truly is false advertising when the college sets up the program in a way that is IMPOSSIBLE for you to graduate in 2 yrs. The soonest you can graduate is 3 and that is becoming harder and harder to do with the massive wait lists.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Nursing Education.

you have to have your year of pre-reqs (full time, usually three semesters) done before you can apply to the nursing program... then it is two years in the clinical major, straight through, full time.

adn is not a two year degree. its usually a three year.

no nursing school just takes people in off the street. it is way too competitive. you have to have your pre-reqs done or almost done (as in, you're applying the semester before but and finishing up some of those pre-reqs before you actually get into the program) before you can get in... at least in this area.

you are making it sound like it is supposed to be only a four semester, two year program and if people didn't get it done in that length of time, they were taking their time and not following the plan of study. if you actually asked some ADN nurses about their experiences with their degre programs, you'd find that it is not a two year program.

you'd probably find that most of the ADN programs have a lot of the BSN stuff you keep posting about (such as, management) included....

why are you only using this one certain college to prove your point? you don't act like you're realizing that not all BSN/ADN programs are the same. and that is why you can't say one nurse isn't equal to the other... you'd have to say... well BSN school "A" better preps RN's than ADN school "A", but ADN school "A" RN's are much better than BSN school "B" RN's...

I have to say that a lot of the hospitals in our area would rather hire their new grads from the two ADN programs in the area than the BSN schools. They feel they are better prepared... this is a common compliment when were at clinicals, straight from management and the nurses on the floor.

Also, look at some of the stuff on your state board of nursing website. Some of the BSN programs have pretty dismal NCLEX pass rates compared to the ADN programs... not always, but sometimes. :rolleyes:

Do the schools advertise as a "2 year degree" or is this a term that some people apply so they can look down their nose at "US" and feel good about themselves??? If the BSN program only takes 4 years but the poor ADN is teking 3 then we are almost as good as they are.

I'm sorry but I am really P****d about some of the comments made. Goes to prove what some people do with their education.

I completed my ADN in 3 years. Started in a BSN program...the wife and kids didn't care what initials I had behind my name as long as I enjoyed what I was doing, was good at it and got payed. I did complete my BSN, no pay raise, same job, no tuition reimbursement. As I said, it was personal for me. I am not worse off than before but it had minimal impact on what I have learned in 12 years of real nursing. Maybe it was the school I attended. Go Sooners.

I did graduate from the ADN program with a nurse that came straight out of high school. Had to have special permission. The last semester, when the rest of us were bogged down with care plans and board preps, she also had Mod Western Civ, Humaities...I think a total of 21 hours. Unbelievable.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Nursing Education.
Do the schools advertise as a "2 year degree" or is this a term that some people apply so they can look down their nose at "US" and feel good about themselves??? If the BSN program only takes 4 years but the poor ADN is teking 3 then we are almost as good as they are.

I'm sorry but I am really P****d about some of the comments made. Goes to prove what some people do with their education.

I completed my ADN in 3 years. Started in a BSN program...the wife and kids didn't care what initials I had behind my name as long as I enjoyed what I was doing, was good at it and got payed. I did complete my BSN, no pay raise, same job, no tuition reimbursement. As I said, it was personal for me. I am not worse off than before but it had minimal impact on what I have learned in 12 years of real nursing. Maybe it was the school I attended. Go Sooners.

I did graduate from the ADN program with a nurse that came straight out of high school. Had to have special permission. The last semester, when the rest of us were bogged down with care plans and board preps, she also had Mod Western Civ, Humaities...I think a total of 21 hours. Unbelievable.

I am sure some school, somewhere, advertises it that way, but not all do... most just say BSN or ADN.

Most BSN people take four years per the plan of study. if they changed their major a couple times, that is different. most of the time, ADN, no matter what, is more than two years, even if you follow the plan of study to the tee or try to accelerate it. a BSN usually can be completed in four years if you follow the plan of study.

3 vs. 4 years? that is what i think isn't right... if you have two years of clinical major in both programs, and the specificed core pre-requirements are the same (such as a&p, chem, nutrition).

then what can bsn's learn in two years that adn's can't learn in two years?

p.s. i'm an Okie also! but i'm going to univ. of missouri (mizzou) for my bsn... go tigers!

Hey Randy, How in the hell does LIBERAL ARTS help a nurse in a rural setting when the neorificet Dr is 30 minutes away and you have a 12 gauge shotgun hole in your abdomen or in the middle of an AMI???? I sure don't care if they quote Shakespeare or understand anything they learned in liberal arts. NO I TAKE THAT BACK...MAYBE IT WILL HELP THEM TELL THE FAMILY THAT YOU PASSED AWAY BECAUSE THEY COULDN"T FIND ANYTHING IN THEIR LIBERAL ARTS TRAINING THAT WOULD HELP SAVE A LIFE.

Like I said earlier, I have completed my BSN and am proud of it. I FEEL BETTER ABOUT MYSELF. I AM NOT NECESSARILY A BETTER NURSE.

Perhaps it would be better if you go back to the university where you failed to learn and ask them what happened.

It is people like you, RANDY, that continue to drive a wedge between nurses who want to do one thing and that is take care of patients and the others who for whatever reason decide to further their LIBERAL ARTS education and take care of patients.

I don't see where my advocating for solutions to some of our many problems and my continual focus on patient safety and furthering our profession is driving a wedge anywhere. Except for those who have difficulty focusing on reality.

I am sure that you would have to refuse being taking care of by a lowly LPN. They only have 18 months of training. How in Gods name can they even think about caring for someone. ( I worked in a 10 bed ICU with an LPN. Still one of the sharpest nurses I have ever worked with).

I love LPNs (I was one) and any nurse for that matter. However, that doesn't change reality does it?

In the above ER situation, GIVE ME AN ADN ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, WITH 10-15 YEARS EXPEREINCE IN ER AND YOU STAY AT HOME WITH YOUR NOSE IN THE BOOKS. I THINK YOU ARE THE SHORT SIGHTED ONE RANDY.

How would an ADN with 10-15 years of experience compare to her twin with a BSN and 10-15 years of experience? I do keep my nose in books and very glad I do...reading 3-4 at a time per week. I've found something very interesting...everytime I finish a book, I know a lot more!! It's so damn amazing I can't understand it! Right now at work I have (just in case you're interested) in my Banana Republic man purse, The New Shiatsu Method: Helping the Body to Heal Itself, The Body In Psychotherapy: Inquires in Somatic Psychology, and Getting in Touch: The Guide to New Body-Centered Therapies.

(To the rest of the world...please do not assume I mean all nurses with BSN and up. There are quite a few that would do the job nicely. You understand that education comes in all shapes and sizes, not just from a University and that as long as we present the argument with the tone that Randy uses, we will never get anywhere).

The "tone" I use? Please reword my comments so that it would ease the perception that you chose.

Randy: So you are saying to not finish an ADN in 2 years or a BSN in 4 equals a lack of ambition?

Where did you get that from? I merely presented the facts and said nothing about a lack of ambition.

WOAH you are asking for someone to flame you here. But don't don the Kevlar for me....Just let me say: I worked my tushie off to get my ADN and NO way could I finish in 2 years.

You're just saying that "you" could not finish in 2 years.

Considering that, how the HECK do you think anyone can finish (ambition notwithtstanding) in the requisite time frames you describe?

I guess you need to ask the college why they are trying to screw you over. Many people follow their degree plan and go right through. Others do not because they may have to work part-time, have kids, etc.

Oh, And it incorporated MORE than 60 hours getting my ADN-----I had nearly 80 hours in THAT transcript when I was done. Matter of fact, I earned a separate associate's degree waiting to get IN! Sad truth is, I would have been better off to continue on to a BSN if only the nearest BSN program were not 80- plus miles away. But that is another thread.

I took 5-6 years getting my BSN due to working and moving and wound up with 150 hours. The additional hours won't hurt you!

All I can say is I think that was a presumptious to judge how fast someone completes a program by ambition. But hey, maybe I am just being sensitive.....Nonetheless......[/quote[

Yes, you're a sensitive type because ambition/motivation is a factor in how fast you complete any task.

My remarks about the misleading nature of those programs descriptions stand--- time requirements/constraints considered. They need revision to be accurate. Please read the rest of my prior post to see what I tried to tell you first time around. I won't waste bandwidth repeating it. Thank you. Have a good evening.

You don't have to repeat it. I taught in both programs at that university.

I am sure some school, somewhere, advertises it that way, but not all do... most just say BSN or ADN.

Most BSN people take four years per the plan of study. if they changed their major a couple times, that is different. most of the time, ADN, no matter what, is more than two years, even if you follow the plan of study to the tee or try to accelerate it. a BSN usually can be completed in four years if you follow the plan of study.

3 vs. 4 years? that is what i think isn't right... if you have two years of clinical major in both programs, and the specificed core pre-requirements are the same (such as a&p, chem, nutrition).

then what can bsn's learn in two years that adn's can't learn in two years?

p.s. i'm an Okie also! but i'm going to univ. of missouri (mizzou) for my bsn... go tigers!

As long as it is not an LSU tiger...go girl.

Randy, I give up...said my piece...we are worlds apart...always will be...your PERCEPTION of reality is a little different than mine, that's OK with me...MY ADN traini9ng tought me to be opened minded, look at the big picture, don't rush to judgement until you have as many facts as possible. I try to be opened minded until someone tries to sucker punch me while preaching unity amongst nurses. There are way too many of "US"...products of the "short sighted solution" you mentioned. You can't imagine what that does for my self-esteem. (I consider myself fairly thick skinned) I must be an idiot for even thinking I could hold a candle to your ZEN LEVEL of nursing. I have always been on the side of pulling nurses together, power in numbers...If it means having to listen to your ideals...NO THANKS...Leave me and the other nurses I know that feel as I do out of the equation. We will still be here taking care of patients. Good night, Good luck, God Bless, Where is my Lynyrd Skynyrd CD?

why are you only using this one certain college to prove your point? you don't act like you're realizing that not all BSN/ADN programs are the same. and that is why you can't say one nurse isn't equal to the other... you'd have to say... well BSN school "A" better preps RN's than ADN school "A", but ADN school "A" RN's are much better than BSN school "B" RN's...

Because I'm familar with this school and it teaches all three programs. How many would you want me to list? I know some are slightly different, however there are core courses that must be taught. As I mentioned before, universities can't go off on a tangent and design an "ideal" nursing program. They also answer to others. We can however, design what we think the ideal entry nurse would be. So, get with it!

As long as it is not an LSU tiger...go girl.

Randy, I give up...said my piece...we are worlds apart...always will be...your PERCEPTION of reality is a little different than mine, that's OK with me...MY ADN traini9ng tought me to be opened minded, look at the big picture, don't rush to judgement until you have as many facts as possible. I try to be opened minded until someone tries to sucker punch me while preaching unity amongst nurses. There are way too many of "US"...products of the "short sighted solution" you mentioned. You can't imagine what that does for my self-esteem. (I consider myself fairly thick skinned) I must be an idiot for even thinking I could hold a candle to your ZEN LEVEL of nursing. I have always been on the side of pulling nurses together, power in numbers...If it means having to listen to your ideals...NO THANKS...Leave me and the other nurses I know that feel as I do out of the equation. We will still be here taking care of patients. Good night, Good luck, God Bless, Where is my Lynyrd Skynyrd CD?

i surely hope you jest about holding a candle to his 'zen level' of nsg.

as i read his responses, i am masochistically amused at consistent elements of human interaction that he just never seems to learn....despite his advanced education. as i've said before, some things just can't be taught. :rolleyes:

Specializes in Pediatrics, Nursing Education.
Because I'm familar with this school and it teaches all three programs. How many would you want me to list? I know some are slightly different, however there are core courses that must be taught. As I mentioned before, universities can't go off on a tangent and design an "ideal" nursing program. They also answer to others. We can however, design what we think the ideal entry nurse would be. So, get with it!
well, yeah they answer to others! thats why the ADN programs are three years! they cut out all the crap that an RN doesn't really need and added in stuff that they do. i mean, i think could have gotten almost comparable, if not surpassing critical thinking skills from psychology, microbiology, chemsitry, and nutrition classes. most of other classes the students in bsn programs have to take they have choices in what they could have taken... they are called "electives." they could have taken any class they wished, no matter how obscure, as long as it fit into a certain category.

btw, aren't all nursing programs accredited by the NLN or some organization like that? I might be wrong on the organization, but the group that does the accrediting sets the standards, right? and those aren't different between ADN and BSN schools.. are they?

come on randy. i think you just love a good debate, don't you?

As long as it is not an LSU tiger...go girl.

Hey, my wife graduated from LSU-Shreveport!

Randy, I give up...said my piece...we are worlds apart...always will be...your PERCEPTION of reality is a little different than mine, that's OK with me...MY ADN traini9ng tought me to be opened minded, look at the big picture, don't rush to judgement until you have as many facts as possible. I try to be opened minded until someone tries to sucker punch me while preaching unity amongst nurses. There are way too many of "US"...products of the "short sighted solution" you mentioned. You can't imagine what that does for my self-esteem. (I consider myself fairly thick skinned) I must be an idiot for even thinking I could hold a candle to your ZEN LEVEL of nursing. I have always been on the side of pulling nurses together, power in numbers...If it means having to listen to your ideals...NO THANKS...Leave me and the other nurses I know that feel as I do out of the equation. We will still be here taking care of patients. Good night, Good luck, God Bless, Where is my Lynyrd Skynyrd CD?

Lynyrd Skynyrd? I took care of some of the band members in the ED when they dropped their plane out of the sky in Mississippi! Remember that it's not about individuals. It's about what would be beneficial to the profession...nothing else. You're self esteem "should" not suffer because you're probably very good at what you do. "Preaching unity" among nurses might be closer if we all started off at the same level instead of three entry levels. No one could argue about who had the best degree could they? As the shamans say (Heck yes I've studied that also), "The world is as you dream it." And my ideals come from my education and experience which most people here are aware of. I've seen a lot including prehospital work with the knife and gun club!

+ Add a Comment