Denied CA lvn license for 2 DUI's

Karl Farmer · Aug 9, 2011

This can be likened also to the grieving process. To deny that your livelihood may have to end, that you graduated from nursing school and will never be licensed, or whatnot, is tragic. So I understand people not wanting to deal with it, since people deal with grieving on their own terms. But life is fleeting, my advice is to move forward.

Tiger747 · Aug 10, 2011

Yes, Samirish, it was of a violent nature; but, it was a "simple battery". It was so preposterous the judge laughed and evidently dismissed it. I never pursued it until I realized the thing is on my formal record, though it says "case dismissed".

But what my family and friends have trouble with is what constitutes "battery" in this country. "Battery" sounds so awful, but merely pushing someone aside who is blocking your exit through a door is battery.

I feel for single mothers who get batteries for slapping their uncontrollable teenagers, for that is battery. Had what constitutes battery in recent times been in effect in the 1960's, I would have never seen my father or mother, as they would have been in Sing Sing, and we were not abused kids. Every single one of my friends and neighbor kids got the "paddle" or "back hand".

Nevertheless, I was informed that no place accepting Medicare/Medicaid can hire someone with a battery on their record. They only list "felony battery", which means you actually hurt someone, within 5 years on their list of "no-no's", but I have learned formally that it means any battery whatsoever.

The thing that boggles my mind is that society forgets "emotional investment". If a person slaps their own child, or comes home to find their spouse in bed with another and slaps them, that is actually normal behavior, despite what the law says. This can in no way be extrapolated to mean that person would slap a child in a day care or slap an 80-year-old in a nursing home.

If accosted on the street by a young thug, yes, I would strike back (though in Indiana you would go to jail for being "mutually combative" and charged with battery, as you are supposed to tell the mugger, "Hold on a minute while I call the police." LOL). Would a reasonable person interpret this to mean I would strike someone helpless in my care?

If this is the case, returning soldiers are likely to shoot people whom they have confrontations with.

I am just saying that everything is taken completely out of context. A person who is violent will have a pattern ( 3 or more episodes) and a felony in there somewhere. But, then, we see people on here facing the same quandry for something as banal as a D.U.I. So, I think the whole thing shows America never lost its Puritan aspect and the barbarism that entails; for, I know this is not an issue, for example, in Germany. Nathaniel Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter" is not so much a "period piece", as it is an indictment of a nation.

PMHNP2023, RN · Aug 10, 2011

The fact that you mention they consider an expungement 'gold' leads me to ask: If it were truly expunged, how did the hospital know about the offense in the first place? Anyway, regardless, you have to mention any expunged offense to the BON. It's a moot point, in my view.

The hospital knew about it because the company that did the background check mistakenly reported the convictions that had been expunged. I filed a dispute with the background company, they notified the hospital of the dispute, and in fact the hospital was going to let me start (as in they overlooked the flagged background) and then the hospital called me to explain. I sent them the paperwork and I was cleared. The background company, upon further investigation, cleared me and sent me and the hospital an updated background report that showed no record.

PMHNP2023, RN · Aug 10, 2011

The fact that you mention they consider an expungement 'gold' leads me to ask: If it were truly expunged, how did the hospital know about the offense in the first place? Anyway, regardless, you have to mention any expunged offense to the BON. It's a moot point, in my view.

The hospital knew about it because the company that did the background check messed up and reported it. I filed a dispute with the background company, they corrected the background report, and the Hospital, my employer, updated their file,

I've been working there without a problem ever since.

tildor · Aug 19, 2011

Wow!!! This is messed up.

ParkerBC,MSN,RN, PhD, RN · Aug 20, 2011

have you appealed the initial decision yet? if not, do so! read this thread https://allnurses.com/nursing-licensure-criminal/you-must-have-606699.html

floridanurse1983 · Aug 21, 2011

I've went to many of our board meetings. They said they deny people with multiple DUI's because "you didn't respect rules of DL, so why would you follow rules of LPN/RN license?" Schools do run their background checks, but its the board's choice to license or not.

PMHNP2023, RN · Aug 21, 2011

I've went to many of our board meetings. They said they deny people with multiple DUI's because "you didn't respect rules of DL, so why would you follow rules of LPN/RN license?" Schools do run their background checks, but its the board's choice to license or not.

One thing the board seems to be missing is that a Driver's License is a RIGHT (not a privilege as some people would have you believe...same goes for voting) , an RN license is a professional license.

CALVN91W · Aug 22, 2011

What a horrible situation to be in, all the time, money, stress, anxiety (insert other useful words to fit your situation), all to find yourself in an even worse situation.

Now if my memory serves me correctly: CA APPROVED AND ACCREDITED nursing schools give you material (as i have many students) that let you know what may hold up your license but ultimately those decisions are left up to the Board to decide, based on not only criminal records but on application procedures, wether you can/should be licensed. A school is responsible and mandated by state regulatory agencies to determine a comprehensive background check to ensure the safety of those will will come into contact with durring clinicals. Comprehensive meaning local and state authorities and a sweep through the FBI database. But it is up to the student THEMSELVES to enquire as to their offenses (wether past or present) and the potential for non-licesure. Think of it as: Your purchasing a product (school) and a simple warning may be issued, but it is ultimately up to the purchaser not the seller to determine if you meet current criteria for the use of the product. CABVNPT is upfront and will give you fact not possiblities.

CA as i'm sure all states have one thought in their minds when looking at offenses, patient safety (the word patient is still widely used today), and there are certain offenses that will simply disqualify: Any crime involving agression/agressive state as defined by DOJ, any repeat offense as defined by DOJ (no matter what amount of time has passed), theft of any kind and serveral other crimes that the state finds worthy of their scrutiny. So as an example DUI (choosen for its popularity in this forum) CA laws says 0.08 BAC, it is your choice to drink and it is your choice to get behind the wheel of a car full knowing the laws (as it is the #1 question in DMV written tests) and when those decision are made and you are noted by officals it was ultimately your decision to ignore those laws with the potential to harm others (Potential not acctual I to have lost family to drivers DUI and have learned these laws) even if no harm was conducted by either driver or extention others the POTENTIAL exists from your decisions. Nurse are left up to decisions that deal with the lives of those enstrusted to us and a poor decision made can cost lives as it can when driving under the influence. A choice made has consequences no matter when it was made, and the board sits and thinks about your ability to make the best decision possible (in that residents best interest) that meets your scope of practice and your obligations as a nurse as well as your ability to make these decisions with little to no suprevision. Any small blemish on your record can trigger this outcome, and cause concern with the board.

It is very unfortunate and I myself have had to help many through this difficulty, AND ITS NOT IMPOSSIBLE, but it is a lengthy process. See the board looks at local authorities and FBI records but also the DOJ and if applicable the DOD, everything comes up, that is why the AG office is involved.

I truly am sorry to those of you currently going through this, i merely want to shed light on the probibility that everyone seems to tiptoe around which is the disregaurd of rules that are in place for a reason. I agree that schools should comit to a more comprehensive BG check but the issue lies with the requirements for clearing a STUDENT for patient contact UNDER supervision.

caramelcomet · Nov 12, 2011

Does anyone know how the new healthcare law and national database on criminal records will affect nurses in Texas.

Will the Board's decision about a nurse with criminal record overtake the national database? And does his national database affect hospitals?

lvnvanessa · Dec 14, 2012

Hi, I need some advice. I'm currently in an LVN program, half way through the program. For the 2nd half of the program we will be attending LA general hospital and I'm worried about passing the background check. I got in trouble a few times almost 4 years ago. I got a DUI, never convicted, they dropped the charges Wasn't over the .08 limit but I wasn't 21 yet. I got a stupid drinking in public ticket another time. And then another time, I was hanging out with some friends and one of the guys with us got in trouble for graffiti but because I was with them I got arrested too! I am so scared about not passing the background check and not being able to finish the program. I did my own background check with the DOJ and they mailed me my results. The DUI and the "vandalism" arrest shows up on my record. I know I need to disclose this but do you think this will stop me from passing the background check for clinicals or getting my license later? All of this stuff happened in 2008 and I haven't gotten in trouble since then. I learned my lesson as far as getting in trouble and all these things have me so worried. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

RN2BKT · Dec 31, 2012

Hi lvnvanessa,

I can only speak from my own experience with 2 duis (2004, 2008). I got into school OK, and was not barred from clinicals.

Right now, however, I'm working with a lawyer on my NCLEX applications, and am almost over the hurdle on my letters of recommendation.

You can't change the past, but you can prepare for the future. I would strongly suggest contacting a lawyer who specializes in BRN application appeals, but I can give you information that I've gotten from lawyers that I'm working on now:

The board wants to see _action_ that relates to your improvement as a person. This means document AA meetings, get a review and sign off from an addictionologist (look back a couple of pages on this forum -- there's some info specifically about that), start volunteering in the community, and get that documented (A graffiti cleanup program would look really good). As you get closer to application time, get at least 2 letters of recommendation from your teachers, at least 2 from people who can attest to how you've changed, and include positive clinical reviews.

The advice I've gotten is to start _now_. I'm having to do a lot of extra work because I need to make up for the fact that I hadn't documented my AA meetings for years. In my case, I'm also doing voluntary drug testing, which sucks, but it shows the board I'm making the effort to show sobriety.

Hope this helps -- I know it seems like a lot, but the more you do now, the less you'll have to run around at the last minute for when you apply.