Democrats want everyone else to pay for the health care

elkpark · Nov 11, 2009

Actually, many of us probably believe that the government should require the insurance companies to provide basic health insurance to the people at a no profit level...others support a government option, like Medicare. Either way, the american people need to have options for insurance that are not permanently tied to employers, that is affordable, that does not make them choose between needed care and other financial responsibilities.

... And is non-profit.

I guess the basic conflict on this issue is whether one sees healthcare as a commodity, like buying a car or a washing machine, or a vital public service, like the police or firefighters. Families in the US don't each contract individually with a private security or firefighting firm to provide your family with police or firefighting services -- we all pay taxes, and if our house catches fire, we call 911 and the firefighters come. No bill, because everyone's taxes paid for the (necessary) service to be there. I don't understand why more people don't see healthcare the same way, but, obviously, a lot of people don't, and see it more like buying a washing machine -- if you can afford one, fine; if not, tough luck, it's not my problem.

allnurses Guide · Nov 11, 2009

I am not opposed to it. That's why I brought it up. There are healthcare programs in this country that people can't be bothered to sign up for. Every state has help for sick people too.
Actually, it's the government program called Medicare that has driven up health care costs. Medicare doesn't pay the going rate and therefore docs, NH, hospitals etc have to increase their fees to cover Medicare. So let's go further in the red with another hand out.

Hospitals are making profits:

https://allnurses.com/social-health-care/health-coverage-plan-434318-page5.html#post3967963

nicurn001 · Nov 11, 2009

So let me get this straight. The commercial insurance companies are making obsence profits. And yet you think the government should require us to buy into these money grubbers.
Have you spoken to the people of Mass. Their premiums have gone up more %wise than anyone elses in the US. Their premiums have not decreased.
When you add more people you also add sicker people so the risk is the same if not more.

Nope I was trying to explain the fundementals of all insurance , but you do not seem willing or capable of understanding them . Yes by increasing the pool of insured , in the case of healthcare as is being discussed in this thread , that will mean more sick people are covered , but it will also mean a great number of healthy people are added to the number of policy holders , therby spreading the risk and through the vaunted efficiencies of the private insurance system , premiums should drop .

Onekidneynurse which do you want , from your input to this thread you appear to be against the Governments healthcare reforms , now it appears you don't like private insurance much better , so how on earth are you saying health care should be funded , because one thing is for certain Americans will continue to get sick and a sizeable number will not be able to pay for the care they recieve , how is that expense to healthcare providers going to be covered ?

Onekidneynurse · Nov 11, 2009

... And is non-profit.
I guess the basic conflict on this issue is whether one sees healthcare as a commodity, like buying a car or a washing machine, or a vital public service, like the police or firefighters. Families in the US don't each contract individually with a private security or firefighting firm to provide your family with police or firefighting services -- we all pay taxes, and if our house catches fire, we call 911 and the firefighters come. No bill, because everyone's taxes paid for the (necessary) service to be there. I don't understand why more people don't see healthcare the same way, but, obviously, a lot of people don't, and see it more like buying a washing machine -- if you can afford one, fine; if not, tough luck, it's not my problem.

72% of fire departments in this country are volunteer. 2 Tylenol are adequate to relieve most headaches should we start taking 4?

That's the problem there will be a big # of people who won't pay into the system, opposite from police and fire.

Onekidneynurse · Nov 11, 2009

Nope I was trying to explain the fundementals of all insurance , but you do not seem willing or capable of understanding them . Yes by increasing the pool of insured , in the case of healthcare as is being discussed in this thread , that will mean more sick people are covered , but it will also mean a great number of healthy people are added to the number of policy holders , therby spreading the risk and through the vaunted efficiencies of the private insurance system , premiums should drop .
Onekidneynurse which do you want , from your input to this thread you appear to be against the Governments healthcare reforms , now it appears you don't like private insurance much better , so how on earth are you saying health care should be funded , because one thing is for certain Americans will continue to get sick and a sizeable number will not be able to pay for the care they recieve , how is that expense to healthcare providers going to be covered ?

So how many of those 47 million people in the USA are healthy. And if they are why do they need health insurance? if they are healthy and won't put a burden on the system why can't they afford their own insurance. Seem healthy people should be working and paying their way doesn't it?

I never said I didn't like commerical insurance. I said it's ironic that those who propose health care reform blame insurance companies. And yet those very same people are gonna make us buy that very insurance. How does that work?

How will it be covered with government insurance. Medicare has lowered it's reimbursement signficantly over the years. AARP actually has a commerical saying that Medicare doesn't pay for everything. And they want people to buy their policies. Funded by United Healthcare. A profit making entity.

Onekidneynurse · Nov 11, 2009

Actually, many of us probably believe that the government should require the insurance companies to provide basic health insurance to the people at a no profit level...others support a government option, like Medicare. Either way, the american people need to have options for insurance that are not permanently tied to employers, that is affordable, that does not make them choose between needed care and other financial responsibilities.

It's the government who's limiting your choice. In many states you can't buy certain policies per government rule.

tewdles, RN · Nov 12, 2009

We agree on something...insurance lobbyists pay to limit the competition in markets...therefore you have a wide variability of insurance availability from state to state. Insurance companies are pretty politically active.

Much of the anti-reform advertising seen currently on tv is paid for by insurance companies or groups, not always in an overt fashion.

nicurn001 · Nov 12, 2009

so how many of those 47 million people in the usa are healthy. and if they are why do they need health insurance? if they are healthy and won't put a burden on the system why can't they afford their own insurance. seem healthy people should be working and paying their way doesn't it? nobody who gets insurance , hopes to make a claim on their policy eg. you don't buy life insurance , hoping to make a claim next week .in the case of health insurance you take it out to cover the risk and be able to pay the bill if a claim is neded . if you are young , healthy and do not have health insurance , the reality is that you are transferring the risk to the tax payers who have to pay the tab for many of the uninsured , or in higher charges , to cover the losses caused by unpaid bills i never said i didn't like commerical insurance. i said it's ironic that those who propose health care reform blame insurance companies. and yet those very same people are gonna make us buy that very insurance. how does that work? that came about at the insurance corporations insistence that if they could not disqualify potential policy holders due to preexisting conditions , or drop policy holders . then the pool of policy holders had to be increased, the only way to creat a balanced risk pool was to ensure every one had to have insurance .quote]

allnurses Guide · Nov 12, 2009

72% of fire departments in this country are volunteer. 2 Tylenol are adequate to relieve most headaches should we start taking 4?
That's the problem there will be a big # of people who won't pay into the system, opposite from police and fire.

Volunteer fire departments are not for profit.

Onekidneynurse · Nov 12, 2009

We agree on something...insurance lobbyists pay to limit the competition in markets...therefore you have a wide variability of insurance availability from state to state. Insurance companies are pretty politically active.
Much of the anti-reform advertising seen currently on tv is paid for by insurance companies or groups, not always in an overt fashion.

AARP is FOR the bill......... They want more customers so they can make more profit. LOL

SilentMind · Nov 12, 2009

if you are young , healthy and do not have health insurance , the reality is that you are transferring the risk to the tax payers who have to pay the tab for many of the uninsured , or in higher charges , to cover the losses caused by unpaid bills
if you read that carefully, you pretty much single handedly dismantled any argument for health care reform.

Onekidneynurse · Nov 12, 2009

so how many of those 47 million people in the usa are healthy. and if they are why do they need health insurance? if they are healthy and won't put a burden on the system why can't they afford their own insurance. seem healthy people should be working and paying their way doesn't it? nobody who gets insurance , hopes to make a claim on their policy eg. you don't buy life insurance , hoping to make a claim next week .in the case of health insurance you take it out to cover the risk and be able to pay the bill if a claim is neded . if you are young , healthy and do not have health insurance , the reality is that you are transferring the risk to the tax payers who have to pay the tab for many of the uninsured , or in higher charges , to cover the losses caused by unpaid bills i never said i didn't like commerical insurance. i said it's ironic that those who propose health care reform blame insurance companies. and yet those very same people are gonna make us buy that very insurance. how does that work? that came about at the insurance corporations insistence that if they could not disqualify potential policy holders due to preexisting conditions , or drop policy holders . then the pool of policy holders had to be increased, the only way to creat a balanced risk pool was to ensure every one had to have insurance .quote]
people cash in their life insurances before they die. so again we are gonna use the very companies we don't like.
what's causing healthcare costs to be passed on to others is the government run programs we have now. why won't docs take on new medicare patients. because they don't get reimbursed enough to cover their costs.
insurance is not the issue. it's the cost of healthcare. other countries who thought this would work are in the red. they have found out that over the years it just gets too expensive. instead of following their lead we should be learning from their mistakes.