Democrats want everyone else to pay for the health care

Onekidneynurse · Nov 12, 2009

If you read that carefully, you pretty much single handedly dismantled any argument for health care reform.
I know..............

Onekidneynurse · Nov 12, 2009

Volunteer fire departments are not for profit.

But they make money or they couldn't buy new fire trucks. And they do it without government money. It's people helping people doing their moral obligations one fire at a time.

nicurn001 · Nov 12, 2009

People cash in their life insurances before they die. So again we are gonna use the very companies we don't like.
What's causing healthcare costs to be passed on to others is the government run programs we have now. Why won't docs take on new Medicare patients. Because they don't get reimbursed enough to cover their costs.
Insurance is not the issue. It's the cost of healthcare. Other countries who thought this would work are in the red. They have found out that over the years it just gets too expensive. Instead of following their lead we should be learning from their mistakes.
Just for the sake of arguement , lets do what you appear to be advocating , get rid of all the government run programs , have the private insurance companies insure anybody able to pay their premiums , no exemptions for pre existing conditions and no mandating insurance coverage . This would be an absolute disaster , those who were covered by government programs would either lose access to healthcare or scrape up the money for premiums ( which would be cheaper than paying directly for their healthcare costs and now they could not be denied by the insurance corps.). If the insurance companies had to accept anyone who could pay the premiums , while not being able to expand the pool of healthy premium payers , they would rapidly go bankrupt .
The cost of healthcare and how we finance this system is the problem , but due to those costs we have to insure against the financial liability that an illness can incur on us , so the two are interelated .
As to your last paragraph , the people of the other countries may try to perfect there healthcare systems , but they are not clamoring for a healthcare financing system like the USA has . They would move heaven and earth to avoid our system of healthcare financing / delivery .

allnurses Guide · Nov 13, 2009

Most physicians do accept Medicare. I remember in 1965 how great it was that the new program was created to pay 80% of needed healthcare for those >65. My grandma lived with us. She and my husband were great friends. She had worked full time as an LPN to pay the bills for when mt grandfather died of canger. She first sold her paid for house and moved in with family. It still took her 17 years to pay those bills. I was such a relief to he that IF she needed expensive end of life care we would not owe her doctors and hospital for her care.

So I am very happy to have paid into Medicare while working full time these last 44 years. Now I am on Medicare.

Haven't used any benefits yet but will next year when I go for my yearly visit with my doctor. Or before if I have a serious accident or illness. Oh yes, my doctor is not droppin me as her patient just because have Medicare. She says Medicare pays in a timely fashion, unlike other insurance companies.

http://www.medicare.gov/basics/fac.asp

Hospital profits are OK.

SilentMind · Nov 13, 2009

Most physicians do accept Medicare.

They sure do....You keep harping about how great medicare is. Try reading up on it a bit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html

"In a June 2008 report, the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission, an independent federal panel that advises Congress on Medicare, said that 29 percent of the Medicare beneficiaries it surveyed who were looking for a primary care doctor had a problem finding one to treat them, up from 24 percent the year before. And a 2008 survey by the Texas Medical Association found that while 58 percent of the state's doctors took new Medicare patients, only 38 percent of primary care doctors did."

Medicare does such a wonderful job with their 29% unable to find care. All of which are actively looking for doctors. Compare that with what...16% (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=628) of the total population who are uninsured (including the ones who are eligible for government assistance and don't apply, or too young for the insurance premiums to be worth it and choose not to purchase insurance).

29% to 16%....People on medicare are actually twice as likely to be SOL then the rest of america.

GCTMT · Nov 13, 2009

They sure do....You keep harping about how great medicare is. Try reading up on it a bit.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html
"In a June 2008 report, the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission, an independent federal panel that advises Congress on Medicare, said that 29 percent of the Medicare beneficiaries it surveyed who were looking for a primary care doctor had a problem finding one to treat them, up from 24 percent the year before. And a 2008 survey by the Texas Medical Association found that while 58 percent of the state's doctors took new Medicare patients, only 38 percent of primary care doctors did."
Medicare does such a wonderful job with their 29% unable to find care. All of which are actively looking for doctors. Compare that with what...16% (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=628) of the total population who are uninsured (including the ones who are eligible for government assistance and don't apply, or too young for the insurance premiums to be worth it and choose not to purchase insurance).
29% to 16%....People on medicare are actually twice as likely to be SOL then the rest of america.

Medicare is a good program. The problem isn't with Medicare, it's with innefficiencies in our health care system.

Regarding the link you provided from CBPP, it revealed, "main reason that adults' private insurance coverage has faded in recent years is that the costs of insurance premiums have climbed, making coverage less affordable for employers and employees alike."

The private insurance market is breaking fast. Medicare-for-all with an initiative to create greater efficiency in our health care system would lower costs and cover everyone.

SilentMind · Nov 13, 2009

Medicare is a good program. The problem isn't with Medicare, it's with innefficiencies in our health care system.

The problem is that medicare doesn't pay what services costs, health care providers have to take a hit financially to the tune of some 30-40% on these patients, and in addition, they have to pay staff to sort through the ungodly amounts of paperwork.

Regarding the link you provided from CBPP, it revealed, "main reason that adults' private insurance coverage has faded in recent years is that the costs of insurance premiums have climbed, making coverage less affordable for employers and employees alike."

One of the reasons costs are rising is because those doctors that do accept medicare have to pass along the costs of those patients onto they're regular patients. If one patient is only paying 60% of their bill, another patient has to pay 140% for it to balance out.

The private insurance market is breaking fast. Medicare-for-all with an initiative to create greater efficiency in our health care system would lower costs and cover everyone.

It's easy to lower costs when the government is the only one paying, and they have the power to say "Well, we're only going to pay this much for this procedure. Take it or leave it." Don't be surprised if you see more and more physicians deciding to leave it.

GCTMT · Nov 13, 2009

The problem is that medicare doesn't pay what services costs, health care providers have to take a hit financially to the tune of some 30-40% on these patients, and in addition, they have to pay staff to sort through the ungodly amounts of paperwork.

It pays costs for those HCP's and hospitals that run efficiently. Again, if hospitals and HCP's were to trim the fat, Medicare payments would be sufficient.

One of the reasons costs are rising is because those doctors that do accept medicare have to pass along the costs of those patients onto they're regular patients. If one patient is only paying 60% of their bill, another patient has to pay 140% for it to balance out.

A relatively easy fix with a Medicare-for-all plan.

It's easy to lower costs when the government is the only one paying, and they have the power to say "Well, we're only going to pay this much for this procedure. Take it or leave it."

Exactly my point. Costs are lowered when one buyer calls the shots.

Don't be surprised if you see more and more physicians deciding to leave it.

You are suggesting then, that if we were to go to a single-payer system, that physicians and providers would just "leave". I don't buy it, there are too many models that demonstrate otherwise.

SilentMind · Nov 13, 2009

It pays costs for those HCP's and hospitals that run efficiently. Again, if hospitals and HCP's were to trim the fat, Medicare payments would be sufficient.
A relatively easy fix with a Medicare-for-all plan.
Exactly my point. Costs are lowered when one buyer calls the shots.
You are suggesting then, that if we were to go to a single-payer system, that physicians and providers would just "leave". I don't buy it, there are too many models that demonstrate otherwise.

I'd just as soon pay extra for the peace of mind that my hospital is making a profit, and isn't cutting corners just to meet costs and squeak by on what medicare is offering. But if you're so hell bent on efficiency, feel free to utilize public health centers for your own health care needs. I'll waste my money on the greed and the waste, and we'll both agree to disagree. Hows that?

And actually, physicians are leaving. Do a little research on your models. Health care providers aren't finding it worth it in these 'model' countries, and students are choosing not to invest the inordinate amounts of time on schooling. These countries are turning more and more towards foreigners to fufill their health care needs. Expertise, like oil or food or any other commodity, can only be imported for so long before the system starts to take a hit.

And if those examples are too remote from our own system, you didn't seem to bat a lash at the article I posted, even after you've gone on and on at great length about how great medicare is. Physicians are already opting out of single payer medicare. They're not going to suddenly decide its worth it because its the only choice. There are plenty of options out there, an the environment is only going to foster less qualified physicians to fill the status quo of the system.

GCTMT · Nov 13, 2009

I'd just as soon pay extra for the peace of mind that my hospital is making a profit, and isn't cutting corners just to meet costs and squeak by on what medicare is offering. But if you're so hell bent on efficiency, feel free to utilize public health centers for your own health care needs. I'll waste my money on the greed and the waste, and we'll both agree to disagree. Hows that?

Paying extra doesn't mean you will get better care. Mayo Clinic, a not-for-profit, is ranked No. 2 in the nation and they have made significant steps in curbing costs. It's followed by Johns Hopkins which is a teaching hospital.

And actually, physicians are leaving. Do a little research on your models. Health care providers aren't finding it worth it in these 'model' countries, and students are choosing not to invest the inordinate amounts of time on schooling. These countries are turning more and more towards foreigners to fufill their health care needs. Expertise, like oil or food or any other commodity, can only be imported for so long before the system starts to take a hit.

What a load. HCP's leave the profession all together or go to other countries to practive for a plethora of reasons. The implication that HCP's are leaving in mass numbers solely because of the system they practice in is worn-out, partisan, drivel.

International migration is complex and can't be linked to one cause. It's as diverse as HCP's.

And if those examples are too remote from our own system, you didn't seem to bat a lash at the article I posted, even after you've gone on and on at great length about how great medicare is. Physicians are already opting out of single payer medicare. They're not going to suddenly decide its worth it because its the only choice. There are plenty of options out there, an the environment is only going to foster less qualified physicians to fill the status quo of the system.

I read the article, and came to a conclusion regarding how I think the problem could be remedied, and I revealed it on this thread. If the US were to adopt a single-payer plan, physicians would either participate or leave the system, it would be there choice just like it is now. But the problem of HCP shortages (including here in the US) is much more complex than the health insurance model the HCP participates in.

Onekidneynurse · Nov 14, 2009

Medicare is a good program. The problem isn't with Medicare, it's with innefficiencies in our health care system.
Regarding the link you provided from CBPP, it revealed, "main reason that adults' private insurance coverage has faded in recent years is that the costs of insurance premiums have climbed, making coverage less affordable for employers and employees alike."
The private insurance market is breaking fast. Medicare-for-all with an initiative to create greater efficiency in our health care system would lower costs and cover everyone.

The premiums have risen because the COSTS have risen. Medicare has allowed $60 Billion of fraus with it's efficient healthcare payment system.

Medicare is one of the most inefficient systems run by our government. The new legislation wants to trim $400 Billion from it. Now it will either have to be on the administrative side or the care side. Or both. If you trim administrative you risk fraud again if you trim health care you risk rationing etc.