CRNA Doctorate in 2015 or 2025?

Nurses Men

Published

Which is it?

Specializes in Critical Care, Progressive Care.

The move to the DNP as the entry to practice degree for all APRNs (ie NP, CRNA, CNM, and CNS) is moving forward pretty fast. I am finishing my MSN (Critical Care CNS) this year, so I have read about this issue as part of my coursework. At first I was dead set against the move to the DNP as the entry to practice qualification. Now, i am on the fence.

On one hand, there is no evidence that the additional year that the DNP programs offer make for safer or more competent practitioners. On the other hand, virtually all the health professions have moved to practice doctorate model Pharm, PT, Dentistry, Optometry - all require three or more years of post bacclauerate study. Kinda makes sense for nursing to get on board.

1. Whatever happens, current licensees will be grandfathered in.

2. CRNAs have been the most skeptical about the value of the DNP out of all the APRN specialties.

3. The change will not happen overnight. My school has been very hesitant about the whole thing and does not offer the DNP at this time.

4. It should come as no surprise that the AACN is a big proponent of the DNP.

The CRNA community should DISTANCE ourselves from the NP community.. not get closer... They aspire to what WE have.. it is not even close to the other way around.

Yikes - thems fighting words :cool:

I am not a CRNA and I cannot speak for you folks. But I do think there is value in all APRNs sticking together and developing uniform entry to practice rules. This will help facilitate the equalizing scope of practice laws between states - one of the wise recommendations of the recent IOM report "The Future of Nursing." For the record, I am not an NP either, just a soon be member of the tiny (by comparison) CNS profession. I do however interact with a lot of NPs. I hate to burst your bubble but I have never heard them speak enviously of you guys, 'cept maybe for the $$ you make. In California CRNAs are supervised by physicians. This is exactly what the NPs do not want.

I really don't no squat about gas. But in critical care nursing, technology has grown so rapidly it seems silly to educate APRNs the same way we did in the 80s. Isn't anesthesia getting more and more complex too? Could you foresee the day when a CRNA would need 3 years of post bacc education to safely practice?

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I would LOVE to see 3 years of CRITICAL CARE.. not ER.... not PACU...

As for standardization... Imagine the hue and cry if the NP community were to require ANY post BSN experience... There are countless Ab Initio NP programs where NO nursing experience is required. Add to that the numerous on line NP programs and the fact an NP program can be done very part time.

The simple fact is there is zero comparison in the rigors and the intensity of a CRNA education and an NP. About TWICE the education and clinical experience.

How difficult can an NP program be if... as I have seen done... an OR nurse with zero bedside experience, can work full time and attend an NP program at the same time?

Unlike an NP...a CRNA is not a physician extender... a CRNA is a physician replacement.

I want NO part of the nursey nurse world of NPs. And neither do most of my peers.

And a CRNA does NOT have to be supervised by an anesthesiologist... Even in California. It is an institutional decision. We can work independently in all 50 states. Oh... and the military where we often did.

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Specializes in Critical Care, Progressive Care.
Unlike an NP...a CRNA is not a physician extender... a CRNA is a physician replacement.

It is my understanding that nurse anesthetists were the first anesthesia providers. Anesthesiology is a new medical specialty, thus anesthesiologists might be more accurately viewed CRNA replacements, not the other way round.

But perhaps it would be wise for APRNs to get beyond the notion of "extender vs. replacement." Nurses provide care to patients in need of care. We work with physicians just like we work with PT, RT, Pharm, and CNAs.

I want NO part of the nursey nurse world of NPs. And neither do most of my peers.

I don't quite understand what you mean.

I would, however, argue that for advanced practice nursing to move forward we ought to work together for the common good of our patients.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Could you foresee the day when a CRNA would need 3 years of post bacc education to safely practice?

The DNP does NOT provide that. The University of MN program just went to DNP only. They added 9 months of part time DNP classes and work then the SRNAs go on directly to EXACTLY the same anesthesia education they were getting in the MSN CRNA program. No additional training in anesthesia practice was added.

Edited for spelling

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Specializes in Critical Care, Progressive Care.
The DNP does NOT provide that. The University of MN program just went to DNP only. They added 9 months of part time DNP classes and work then the SRNAs go on directly to EXACTLY the same anesthesia education they were getting in the MSN CRNA program. No additional training in anesthesia practice was added.

Sounds like rather a waste of time then. If the students are not getting additional education in anesthesia practice then they probably will not graduate as better prepared providers than the MSN trained students. In general this has been the crux controversy around the DNP for all the APRN specialties - patients are not better served by the DNP (ie there is no evidence of increased safety and quality) and providers are not better served (ie no increase in income)

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Sounds like rather a waste of time then. If the students are not getting additional education in anesthesia practice then they probably will not graduate as better prepared providers than the MSN trained students. In general this has been the crux controversy around the DNP for all the APRN specialties - patients are not better served by the DNP (ie there is no evidence of increased safety and quality) and providers are not better served (ie no increase in income)

That's the complaint that many people here have about the DNP curricula in various schools -- they add little or nothing (to the existing, established MSN curricula) in clinical education, and the additional content is all theory/leadership/healthcare systems stuff.

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