CPR after rigor mortis

Specialties Geriatric

Published

Hello All, Do u know where I can find information referring to Long term care scope of practice for RN's? What is the policy on starting cpr after rigor mortis set in? Thank you:)

Specializes in LTC, ER, ICU, Psych, Med-surg...etc....
:Melody: They're not only merely dead, they're really most sincerely dead! :Melody:

:rotfl:

I love that movie!

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:rotfl:

I love that movie!

wizard of oz???? :rotfl: :rotfl:

leslie

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I agree that it would be impossible once RM has set in. That was the point of my post w/ the times of onset for RM.

I do believe (not cking tho) that the OP was told to perform CPR even w/ RM.

(Contrary to what is taught in CPR classes.)

i don't remember who it was that pushed the cpr on this pt w/rm but it was felt that she was covering her butt.....certainly not thinking clearly and in panic mode.

leslie

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Specializes in MS Home Health.

If there is no DNR in place and you find a dead patient and don't start CPR, I am sure the families would line up to sue nice and quickly.

renerian

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Specializes in LTC, ER, ICU, Psych, Med-surg...etc....
wizard of oz???? :rotfl: :rotfl:

leslie

yep...hehe

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If there is no DNR in place and you find a dead patient and don't start CPR, I am sure the families would line up to sue nice and quickly.

renerian

even after rigor mortis has set in????

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Specializes in Emergency, Orthopaedics, plastics.

Technically as soon as the heart ceases electrical activity, a person is dead. Now this doesn't mean that we can't bring them back using ALS techniques, and so we try our best...

But what does it mean to do CPR on someone in whom has been dead a while? For a start, your chances of a successful recovery are somewhere in the region of winning the lottery two times in a row (or... pretty darn small!). But unless you can pronounce a person dead, then is it unreasonable to attempt to try, especially when you might have legal ramifications from relatives? I would always try for CPR in a patient on the ward unless they have a DNR order against them or there were extenuating circumstances. After all, i would prefer to say to the relatives (and god forbid a judge) that "...we did everything we could" rather than "...we did nothing except call the morgue":stone

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Specializes in ICU, CM, Geriatrics, Management.
... was told by the ED that it opens us up for lots of liability...

Have heard this also, but in non-healthcare related locations (e.g., shopping centers, etc.).

The rationale is that if it's not a prescripted piece of equipment on those premises, then having it there will presume professional standards for its use and, hence, potential liability.

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Specializes in Education, Acute, Med/Surg, Tele, etc.

I am with you forcemaster! It is so much better to say you tried something than having to tell a loved one that just had a loss..."I called the county coroner...".

Renerian...you are right, but I can't tell you how many times, despite the DNR status family screams at me to "DO SOMETHING!". I remind them of the status and they look at me like I was Satan or something...like I care more for a piece of paper than a person...it is a trickier situation than just not doing something...happens when emotional levels partnered with seconds counting hit head on!

A nursing friend of mine, also in assisted living had to perform CPR on an obviously dead man the other week. He had died in his sleep obviously..was stiff as all get go, gone for hours...but the wife insisted they call 9-11 and get CPR efforts underway till they arrived. She said she felt like a fool, and knew the paramedics would certainly think so...and I guess they did till they met the wife! LOL! They put on the EKG and finally she would listen to reason when she saw the flat line and heard them say "there is nothing that could have been done, he must have passed peacefully in his sleep".

Here was the trick of why CPR was done...legal reasons and a lot of compassion...a spouse (spouse or family POA only) can okay the use of CPR in a DRN patient that can not speak for themselves..(but they can not say don't treat..that becomes a conflict of interest...I have run into this time and time again with relatives or spouses screaming at me to stop CPR when there is no DNR present..I can't..they have no say at that point...but I also have been told TO do CPR by spouses with DNR in place and I must..but for me they were recently arrested in my own sight..whew!).

It all depends on situation...sometimes it is simply done for compassion and to help the loved one cope (ie the "we did everything we could")...and other times it is no problem and you just go on with your task of calling whom you need and get back to our jobs of dealing with the demands of the living...

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Have heard this also, but in non-healthcare related locations (e.g., shopping centers, etc.).

The rationale is that if it's not a prescripted piece of equipment on those premises, then having it there will presume professional standards for its use and, hence, potential liability.

You no longer have to have a prescription for the heartstart AED and another brand, and soon any brand im sure.

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Specializes in Education, Acute, Med/Surg, Tele, etc.

Rx for an AED???? Never heard of this! We don't need Rx for AED's here..they are in most if not all of our malls statewide, police are carrying them now (slower to get them all...but they are becoming standard for their cars)...most airlines have them too. It is a blessing!

I also live in a very high tech industry area where most larger tech corps have them in every building, every floor of their huge facilities..this will be common practice soon! YEAH!~

Well...guess it has to do with the fact that I live near where the very first portable defib was invented, and made..and improved over the years (you should see the first one..looks like a medievil torture device!!!!!). AED's are considered excellent PR in any place here...so places get them :). I can go with that..make it trendy..LOL!

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[As a Advanced Cardias Life Support Certified RN, if there are signs of death, i.e. mottling, rigidity, etc. then CPR is not to be started. It would just be futile. My charge nurse ordered us to start CPR on this patient that had been dying all night. The primary nurse had been calling the cardiac surgeon, to be told there was nothing that could be done, but.... he would not make him a DNR!! It would probably affect his survival statistics. Who knows. Well, a code was called and the doctors took one look at him and said stop! Thank goodness. It was awful, so now I know different. :o QUOTE=healinghandsRN]Hello All, Do u know where I can find information referring to Long term care scope of practice for RN's? What is the policy on starting cpr after rigor mortis set in? Thank you:)

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