Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Jul 6, 2007

In the movie MM takes a small group of Americans whp couldnt get the medicines they needed to Cuba. They were gotten right in, got the care and the meds they needed. Which really is kinda cute.

The good part is the American Government is looking at charging them with leaving the country illegally. Hilarious.

Thats a good response from the Gov't

fronkey bean · Jul 6, 2007

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php#canada_ration
In an attempt to move the debate away from Mr. Moore and to the real issues of how to design a better system I posted some links to some resources about single payer.

Thanks for the link. I'm still not 100% sold but this is more what I wanted to see on this issue. More information, not Moore information.

fronkey bean · Jul 6, 2007

How do we pay for UHC
1. Taxes yes, not necessarily more than now. Just take the money from the illegal war we are in.
2. Specify that certain corporate profits from the overgrown overcharging pharmaceutical companies help support UHC, works for me,
3. Specify that all the quiet but huge profits from the Insurance companies help pay for the UHC, that works for me also.
4. They have shown by raising the price of Gas with a 57 cent per gallon gas tax to use for the UHC will fund it almost entirely. And this way everyone helps pay the tax. Non taxpaying citizens, illegals , drug pushers, criminals, everyone has to pay.
Now if I owned a gas guzzler, I would give it away.

1) You may not like the war but it is a separate issue. I don't like another situatiion in which money is spent to do something I find immoral ( it has been deemed off topic so I won't mention it specifically) but I don't have the right to demand the gov't use revenues from this situation to fund health care or any other program.

2) The gov't can't make private companies spend their profits on anything.

3) If we have UHC there won't be pvt insurance at all and thus no money to be had from them.

4) Are you kidding?! I can't afford to drive to work now and I live two miles from where i work and drive a taurus. If they raise gas prices any more my car is going to become a large American made planter:lol2:

Nursebarebari · Jul 6, 2007

I watched sicko last night and I can not believe the so call manage care is that bad. And I can not believe the believe millions of uninsured are treated that way. I thought haspitals are not suppose refuse anyone even if they do not have insurance. I was happy that my family have 2 different health insurance from me and my husband until after I watched sicko. Now I am thinking of what will happen to us if any of us get very sick. Are we going to be refused the treatment we need like those people or what? Aren't we suppose to be the number one in the world? So why is our health care system so bad? It is scary and I am very confuse. :down:

Please share your thought

Sheri257 · Jul 6, 2007

You're just upset that you got called out on it.

In a way, this gets to the heart of the question raised by Moore's movie. Why are we worried about calling people out on message board posts when this is the real issue ...

I watched sicko last night and I can not believe the so call manage care is that bad. And I can not believe the believe millions of uninsured are treated that way. I thought haspitals are not suppose refuse anyone even if they do not have insurance. I was happy that my family have 2 different health insurance from me and my husband until after I watched sicko. Now I am thinking of what will happen to us if any of us get very sick. Are we going to be refused the treatment we need like those people or what? Aren't we suppose to be the number one in the world? So why is our health care system so bad? It is scary and I am very confuse.

One of the most compelling quotes in the movie was from an American living in France who essentially said: In France, the government is afraid of the people ... in America, the people are afraid of the government.

Why aren't we, as Americans, demanding more from our government? Shouldn't healthcare be a fundamental right for everyone? As Business Week pointed out, in France the sicker you are, the less you pay ... if you're really sick, you pay nothing.

Or, is the sad reality that we, as a culture, simply don't care? Is it un-American to question a culture that values profit over everything else, to the point that people are needlessly dying so the healthcare profiteers make even more money.

I just can't imagine that this is what the founding fathers had in mind.

:typing

Levin · Jul 6, 2007

One of the most compelling quotes in the movie was from an American living in France who essentially said: In France, the government is afraid of the people ... in America, the people are afraid of the government.

Looking at it, the Australian system is a lot like the French system but with some major differances.

You pay the same copay no matter how sick you are or how chronic the illness is, we could learn from France there.

We have been using GP's as gatekeepers to specialists for years and years, France could learn something from us there.

A referral from a GP is rebated at around 30 to 40 dollars.

An initial Consult with a specialist can been anywhere upwards of 100 dollars(varies from specialty to specialty)

Plus once they have been evaluated by a GP they tend to go to the RIGHT specialist, which is not always the case if the patient is judging by their own symptoms.

Levin

fronkey bean · Jul 6, 2007

Sheri, to respond to your quote;

"One of the most compelling quotes in the movie was from an American living in France who essentially said: In France, the government is afraid of the people ... in America, the people are afraid of the government."

the only problem w/ that is you end up w/ a gov't by mob as seen by the riots a year or two ago. The gov't wanted to put what appeared to be some reasonablepolicies in place to keep employers from not being able to fire a poor new employee and the workers of France would have none of it. They rioted for days until the restrictions were repealed. I would definitely like to see our gov't be more responsive to the will of the people but would not like to see mobs destroying property and risking lives to achieve their goals.

And is gov't provided health care rreally a fundamental "right" when a person rrefuses to modify high risk behaviors when dx'd w/ a health condition that is adversely affected by that behavior?

HM2VikingRN, RN · Jul 6, 2007

We should not have health care by bake sale in this country. I just saw another ad in the paper for a benefit to help pay for medical bills for a lymphoma patient.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jul 6, 2007

http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676_4.htm

"

Myths on Universal Health Care

By Dr. Marcia Angell, Past Editor New England Journal of Medicine February 4, 2003. Washington D.C.

Myth #1: We can’t afford a national health care system, and if we try it, we will have to ration care. My answer is that we can’t afford not to have a national health care system. A single-payer system would be far more efficient, since it would eliminate excess administrative costs, profits, cost-shifting and unnecessary duplication. Furthermore, it would permit the establishment of an overall budget and the fair and rational distribution of resources. We should remember that we now pay for health care in multiple ways – through our paychecks, the prices of goods and services, taxes at all levels of government, and out-of-pocket. It makes more sense to pay just once.
Myth #2: Innovative technologies would be scarce under a single-payer system, we would have long waiting lists for operations and procedures, and in general, medical care would be threadbare and less available. This misconception is based on the fact that there are indeed waits for elective procedures in some countries with national health systems, such as the U. K. and Canada. But that’s because they spend far less on health care than we do. (The U. K. spends about a third of what we do per person.) If they were to put the same amount of money as we do into their systems, there would be no waits and all their citizens would have immediate access to all the care they need. For them, the problem is not the system; it’s the money. For us, it’s not the money; it’s the system.
Myth #3: A single-payer system amounts to socialized medicine, which would subject doctors and other providers to onerous, bureaucratic regulations. But in fact, although a national program would be publicly funded, providers would not work for the government. That’s currently the case with Medicare, which is publicly funded, but privately delivered. As for onerous regulations, nothing could be more onerous both to patients and providers than the multiple, intrusive regulations imposed on them by the private insurance industry. Indeed, many doctors who once opposed a single-payer system are now coming to see it as a far preferable option.
Myth #4: Claims the government can’t do anything right. Some Americans like to say that, without thinking of all the ways in which government functions very well indeed, and without considering the alternatives. I would not want to see, for example, the NIH, the National Park Service, or the IRS privatized. We should remember that the government is elected by the public and we are responsible for it. An investor-owned insurance company reports to its owners, not to the public.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jul 6, 2007

http://www.house.gov/conyers/facts_on_corp_healthcare.pdf

"pass hr 676 now!

corporate medicine profit break down

(*data from ihsp, “the institute for health and socio-economic policy,” the research arm of the

california nurses association, december 9, 2006)

why does your health care cost so much?

- on march 2004, a national survey from the common wealth fund found that 2 out of 5 adults have medical bill problems or accrued medical debt.

- the 20 largest hmos’ in the u.s. made $10.8 billion in profits in the most recent fiscal year, (2005). 12 top hmo executives pocketed $222.6 million in direct compensation in the most

recent fiscal year. (2005).

- the top seven u.s. health insurers earned a combined $10 billion dollars- nearly triple their profits of 5 years earlier. (wall street journal, august 2006.) in 2004, top executives of the 11 largest health insurers, made a combined $85 million per year in one year. (weiss reports)

- in 2004, the world’s 13 largest drug companies recorded $62 billion in profits. the top 12 drug companies executives collected $192.7 million for the same period.

-

dr. william mcguire, ceo of unitedhealth, the nation’s second leading health insurers, had $1.6 billion in exercisable options at the end of 2005. (cbn news, october 16, 2006)

- the aggregate profits for u.s. hospitals reached a record $26.3 billion in 2004, and profits have risen substantially the past few years even as the number of hospitals and hospital beds has

been shrinking.

- the nations' 100 most expensive hospitals set their gross charges at an average of 680% (up from 673% in 2002-2003) of their costs.

- the diagnostic imaging technology category has grown to a nearly a $100 billion dollar a year business. (strategy & business news, 3/31/04, u.s. health care’s technology cost

crisis)"

do you see the problem with this? they are not just making a profit here- they are making a killing (literally in some cases).

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jul 6, 2007

http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676_2.htm#7

"Proposed Funding For USNHI Program:

Maintaining current federal and state funding of existing health care programs. A modest payroll tax on all

employers

of 3.3%. A 5% health tax on the

top 5%

of income earners. A small tax on stock and bond transfers. Closing corporate tax loop-holes, repealing the Bush tax cut."

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Jul 6, 2007

1) You may not like the war but it is a separate issue. I don't like another situatiion in which money is spent to do something I find immoral ( it has been deemed off topic so I won't mention it specifically) but I don't have the right to demand the gov't use revenues from this situation to fund health care or any other program.
2) The gov't can't make private companies spend their profits on anything.
3) If we have UHC there won't be pvt insurance at all and thus no money to be had from them.
4) Are you kidding?! I can't afford to drive to work now and I live two miles from where i work and drive a taurus. If they raise gas prices any more my car is going to become a large American made planter:lol2:

1 I will leave alone though I said Take the money from the war.

3. Actually even with UHC there will still be those with Insurance. And the humongous returns of insurance companies will continue.

2. What Im saying is that it is time to muzzle the immense profits of Pharmaceutical Industries, maybe even have them taken over as part of the UHC.

4. You should drive a more efficient car, I also live 2 miles from work. I walk to and from work mostly. Pleasant stroll