Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's

[HM2VikingRN]

Health care advances in Cuba

According to the Associated Press as cited in the Post article, "Cuba has made recent advancements in biotechnology and exports its treatments to 40 countries around the world, raking in an estimated $100 million a year. ... In 2004, the U.S. government granted an exception to its economic embargo against Cuba and allowed a California drug company to test three cancer vaccines developed in Havana."

http://alternet.org/envirohealth/50911/?page=1

[cjmue12]

Good link Darren. It shows that MM is a total and complete liar, who is only interested fabricating facts for the sake of....gees, I don't know why he would do such a thing. My guess is the pocketbook.

But--you and I both know that nobody who believes in MM will even click on the link...

I have not seen this movie but I am curious with all the contoversy, do you feel there is really no truth to any part of this movie and that he has made up all of its content?

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

Whoopdy doo. This doens't prove the MM isn't a liar though. That's been proven already.

Actually, I posted a link to that website on one of these "Sicko" threads and the site is alive and well. The wife has a letter to MM posted there. Even though she thanked him, she doesn't agree with him. And her husband doesn't either and it hasn't stopped him from posting just that.

http://www.moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/C23/

steph

[nuangel1, BSN, RN]

If you actually read the threads on this, then you would see that nobody is judging the film, only the man.

well thats the ridiculous part .instead of seeing the movie and even thinking or debating the topic .you would rather trash the man who made it .thats the ridiculous part .get over who the director of the piece is and keep an open mind .

[fronkey bean]

I believe someone has to be the messenger

They didnt listen to Teddy way back when

They need to listen to Michael

You say his politics are to far to the left, would you rather have what you have and that is a mainstream that is so far to the right that they would deny Americans Health care, based on their socioeconomic status.

Iagree, someone should be a messenger for the healthcare syst. - but could we get an honest one? I don't think MM meets that criteria (see above link).

[fronkey bean]

If you dont believe in Universal health care, then you do not believe in a persons right to health care unless they can afford it socioeconomically

teeituptom, see my post on the previous page, people can and do get treated every day in the USA even if they can't pay. In addition to Pro Bono work by hosp.s and MDs there are gov't and private clinics that treat at little or no cost, programs by drug co.s that get needed prescriptions to those who can't afford and a myriad of other programs designed to provide care for those who fall through the insurance "gap".

[fronkey bean]

Access to healthcare is neither a conservative or a liberal issue. Its a human rights issue for all. My question about a solution was not disingenous but based on the very real concern that with 15% more or less uninsured in this country that we have a non-system where we will pay for care for those people regardless of their insurance status through cost shifting to the insured.

There are enough correlations out there between poor health status and lack of educational achievement, use of public welfare systems, underemployment, and entrance into the correctional system to say that doing nothing is too expensive for our society. Its not that progressives are trying to achieve absolute equality of results for everyone rather the more accurate goal of progressivism is to reduce barriers to achievement (whether it is educational, health etc.) so that all people in society have the opportunity to achieve to the extent of their individual ability and drive.

There is plenty of economic data out there to show that between 1945 and 1975 there was greater average upward mobility in our society d/t this dedication towards achieving a common good than between 1973-2007. (UCTV just showed a documentary about the assault on the middle class that has ample data to support the progressive critique of the failure of the conservative movement to deliver a broadly shared prosperity. See http://www.uctv.tv/ondemand/ . http://webcast.ucsd.edu:8080/ramgen/UCSD_TV/12620.rm) My question continues to be "How will the conservative movement deliver a broadly shared prosperity AND universally affordable health care?

Who is a progressive?

Founded on the ideals of the progressive movement at the turn of the century, today's progressive movement believes that an open and effective government can improve the lives of everyday Americans by playing an active role in solving social and economic problems.

In other words, a progressive is someone who is idealistic enough to believe that things can be better and pragmatic enough to get it done.

http://www.americanprogress.org/aboutus

Your chart suggest that those who don't identify themselves as progressive are short-sighted, afraid of new ideas, niave, closed-minded, selfish, arrogant, and xenophobic - I think I've been insulted:confused:. As a truley caring conservative, I believe there are many ways to solve the problems of health care and other societal issues besides the "progressive" way. It is not wrong (or even bad) to think about things like cost, unintended consequences of actions and feasibility of implementation among other things. I reitterate, our health care syst may not be perfect but completely overhauling it is like thowing out the baby w/ the bath water.

[fronkey bean]

Actually, I posted a link to that website on one of these "Sicko" threads and the site is alive and well. The wife has a letter to MM posted there. Even though she thanked him, she doesn't agree with him. And her husband doesn't either and it hasn't stopped him from posting just that.

http://www.moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/C23/

steph

I am always astounded that no matter how many times it is pointed ou that MM has deliberately twisted facts and misrepresented people, he gets a pass on whatever he says. I am not saying that the man is evil or that he never makes a valid point (even a broken clock is right twice a day), what I am saying is he has been cought manipulating the truth enough that he is no longer a believable spokesperson. If progressives really want to change the health care syst., it would serve them better to lose the polarizing and non-productive rhetoric of MM.

[battpos]

I am always astounded that no matter how many times it is pointed ou that MM has deliberately twisted facts and misrepresented people, he gets a pass on whatever he says. I am not saying that the man is evil or that he never makes a valid point (even a broken clock is right twice a day), what I am saying is he has been cought manipulating the truth enough that he is no longer a believable spokesperson. If progressives really want to change the health care syst., it would serve them better to lose the polarizing and non-productive rhetoric of MM.

Where could I find out about MM deliberately twisting facts?

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

teeituptom, see my post on the previous page, people can and do get treated every day in the USA even if they can't pay. In addition to Pro Bono work by hosp.s and MDs there are gov't and private clinics that treat at little or no cost, programs by drug co.s that get needed prescriptions to those who can't afford and a myriad of other programs designed to provide care for those who fall through the insurance "gap".

You prove my point for me, thank you. There are millions and millions who fall through the gap. Yes in the old days I saw pro bono programs set up, and by pro bono you mean hospitals and doctors just have to take the loss.. Now they are all funded by the government, no one works for free, And I havent seen any little or no cost private clinics around. None. And prescription programs that limit the amount of medication you can get. Sorry you have exceeded your allotment of vicodin for the time period, you will now have to be pain free all on your own untill this period is up. And dont get me started why they limit us old timers on the amount of viagra we can take. Now you also talk about a myriad of other programs. Sorry I dont see them out there.

My point is, Take all of this and put it under one system, It can be managed much more efficiently, and everyone without question can be taken care of. That seems more appropiate to me.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Your chart suggest that those who don't identify themselves as progressive are short-sighted, afraid of new ideas, niave, closed-minded, selfish, arrogant, and xenophobic - I think I've been insulted:confused:. As a truley caring conservative, I believe there are many ways to solve the problems of health care and other societal issues besides the "progressive" way. It is not wrong (or even bad) to think about things like cost, unintended consequences of actions and feasibility of implementation among other things. I reitterate, our health care syst may not be perfect but completely overhauling it is like thowing out the baby w/ the bath water.

But a complete overhaul is needed, how many bandaids can you keep applying. That tub of bath water is leaking seriously.

[mvanz9999, RN]

I think it is kind of interesting and ironic that Michael Moore sent one of his biggest critics a check for $12,000 to help defray the costs of that man's wife's medical costs that were not being covered any longer by her insurance company.......it seems that this man had a website that he devoted all his time and energy to as well as money that was all about blasting Michael Moore....then his wife becomes severely ill, and the insurance company denies their claims.....and they have no money.....so he has to shut down the website....and out of what I think was a fine example of "loving one's enemies", MM sent them a check to help defray their costs....

interesting and ironic.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

Where could I find out about MM deliberately twisting facts?

http://www.moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/one_more_attempt_to_set_the_record_straight/

and

http://www.moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/jim_kenefick_and_moorewatch_as_presented_by_michael_moore_in_sicko/

[mvanz9999, RN]

From Moorewatch.com:

He goes on to discuss how I should be able to "Have health insurance and exercise his First Amendment right to run me into the ground." This is just a cornucopia of various posts from all different times. He goes back to December 2004, jumps to 2006, then back to 2004...it's all edited with the Ken Burns motion technique and much of the text obscured by a dark filter with certain key phrases highlighted. Then he highlights a post I made on 4/16/2004. It was in response to one of "Mike's Messages." In that message, he was running down a few civilian contractors that had just been brutally murderered in Iraq. I was disgusted by his reaction then and I an just as disgusted by it now.

That's the context of me saying "Dear Michael, **** you." Again, something that theater-goers will never, ever be able to discern from the brief, carefully presented clips in the film. All it does is serve to make me look, as he did to the Bunny Lady and many others, like an unhinged loon.

He then shows the actual check/money order thing he sent - complete with our names on display. Fair enough. I'm not exactly hiding under a rock here. he then says that he sent it anonymously. Anonymous except for that part where it's in the movie. Oops!

The clip continues to show my thanking the "anonymous" guardian angel, and he closes by saying "His wife got better and his website is still going strong." Another misleading statement. My wife is getting better. There is a difference, but it's a difference that Moore could not care less about. He never asked, personally or through a representative, about my wife's current health. He just made it up.

The line "and his website is still going strong" comes over a tight shot of a line from that post about his reaction to the deaths of the civilian contractors in Iraq. Leaving the viewers with that last impression that I'm the most ungrateful bastard who ever lived.

Of course the facts are that those words were written TWO YEARS before Michael sent that check.