So, tonight I was talking about the classes I'll be taking this fall at my local community college (one of which is chemistry which I'm a little nervous about since I've never had a chemistry class before) with my wonderful bachelor's degree holding partner who, in an attempt to ease my anxiety makes the comment "Well, it's just at a community college so the class should be pretty easy." Wrong thing to say honey...
It did however get me to thinking about the general attitudes that people have towards not only community colleges but also to vocational/trade schools. That those of us who go to such institutions are intellectually inadequate and wouldn't be able to handle the academic rigors of a 4 year college or university. This attitude is completely inaccurate, after all if my classes were so EASY then the 4 year colleges and universities in my area wouldn't have an articulation agreement which honors the credits I take at the community college. It is a different atmosphere in a community college of course, but that doesn't mean I don't have to learn the material and learn it well in order to pass.
I remember in high school when I decided to enter the Practical Nursing program at the vocational school how I received criticism, statements such as "Well, you need to go to a 4 year college, anything less is for people who are stupid." and even now when I tell people I'm an LPN and that I've been at a community college taking classes I'm greeted with a concerned expression, a half smile, and a polite nod. A voice bubble might as well pop up above their head saying, "Well, since you're a failure at life and this is all you have, I'll be happy for you." after all since I'm going to a community college it means I can't handle REAL academics.
It may sound as though I'm jealous of those who get to receive a university education and have a bachelor's degree or above and are the same age as myself. And, yes, at times I am jealous because I would have loved to have had the same experience. But that simply just wasn't my path, one day I will "pull my time" in a four year college, my path will take me there, just not yet.
I believe no matter your credentials, whether you're doctorate degree holding FNP or a certificate holding CNA that you should be incredibly proud. Whether you're bachelor's prepared RN or a diploma holding LPN you should be proud. Because all levels of education should be revered and respected and valued. I don't feel ashamed of not already being a Registered Nurse or a college graduate nor do I have any regret at first becoming a CNA and then becoming an LPN because I still am helping people and I am still living my dream and that dream was to be independent. If you're a BSN or an ADN be PROUD of it no matter what your credentials are because you earned them.
College graduates face really discouraging odds. Many are unemployed, many more are employed in something other than their field of study, and many still are up to their eyeballs in debt. My partner for instance has a bachelor's degree yet works in job making a little over minimum wage. That is why I chose the path I did. When I was 17 and I enrolled in the LPN program, I knew due to my personal and financial circumstances that I couldn't afford to go to college just yet, I needed to be self sufficient and going to a trade school and later to a community college would allow me to do that. It wasn't the right choice for everyone but it was for me, and because of that I can pay for my school one semester at a time while minimizing and most semesters avoiding student loans, not to mention a few years head start on 401k versus my peers and that feels really good.
A dear friend of mine always wanted to be a mechanic, her family, peers, etc were not supportive "only stupid people do something like that" so instead she got 2 bachelor's degrees, is jobless, and owes thousands of dollars in student loans. All this because her dream was too "stupid" in the eyes of her parents and everyone else. Side not, I know many mechanics who make more money than I do and they're all pretty happy. I think the attitude that you go to college to "make a better life for yourself" isn't always accurate. We shouldn't be telling our children that they have to go to college in order to be considered intelligent or successful. We should be telling them that in this world success isn't defined by your credentials or where you went to school or how much money you make, it's defined by getting out of life what you make of it and what you want from it. Do what you love people, whether you're a CNA or a Medical Doctor, do what you love and love what you do and be proud but above all else never assume that someone is stupid simply because their education is different from yours.
Whew... feels good to get that out.
Oh and my partner quickly apologized for what he said. Probably had something to do with the fact I spouted off this little speech in the course of sixty seconds after his comment.
Until the nursing profession decides to formally declare that our different paths of education should be weighted differently, we are all stuck with the NCLEX as the entry to practice.
It seems that a discussion about the quality of a CC nursing degree is difficult to separate from the ADN/BSN controversy. Otherwise how would we rate the ADN degree; to what would we compare it ?
Well the descriptive title says it all- "Community College? You must be stupid." What we are supposed to be discussing is the quality of a Community College.
I just think going into the ADN/BSN debate is another topic. I will say that it is very competitive in my area to even get INTO the CC nursing program, let alone stay in it. You have to keep a B average all through school. Teachers only have to keep a B average in core classes in some schools. Nursing school is tough, competitive and no matter where you end up in whatever program it will be intense.
I have to tell you that the easiest classes I ever took were some of the education core classes at a major university. Nursing classes were much more difficult, though the education classes were much more writing intense. I have taken classes at 4 universities and one Community College.
I have a bachelors of science from university of Florida and am now at a community college in my second semester of nursing program... I also have a friend that graduated from UF with a finance degree and we both talk about how this is much harder than our degrees from our prestigious alma matter. We are blown away of the awesome education we are receiving..
I too had a attitude that community college was for those not able to handle school..
I stand corrected.. These professors care and will have me confident and ready to work in the nursing field...
Chin up and be proud as we graduate with less debt than the bsn
We are talking about the quality of CC education though, not the ADN/BSN debate.
Most CC nursing programs are NLN accredited- very rigorous. They do this so that the credits will transfer and their students will pass boards and be excellent nurses. The education of an ADN is different than that of a BSN, but they can both have a high quality education. Just having a 4 year degree does not mean that you went to a quality program. There are some schools out there that are supposed to be University or College programs that are not reputable at all.
You can't separate the 2. The ADN/BSN debate and the quality of CC education are different sides of the same coin. It is the core of the debate. If CC were at the same level and standards they would offer BSN. But, they don't. Therefore, the quality of the 2 is inherently different as their outcomes are completely DIFFERENT. You cannot take these 2 things apart and say one has nothing to do with the other. The caliber of a BSN comes from their university degree and the requirements. A CC nurse comes out with different ways of thinking and a task based approach instead of a whole picture approach which is seen with BSN and higher.
You can't separate the 2. The ADN/BSN debate and the quality of CC education are different sides of the same coin. It is the core of the debate. If CC were at the same level and standards they would offer BSN. But, they don't. Therefore, the quality of the 2 is inherently different as their outcomes are completely DIFFERENT. You cannot take these 2 things apart and say one has nothing to do with the other. The caliber of a BSN comes from their university degree and the requirements. A CC nurse comes out with different ways of thinking and a task based approach instead of a whole picture approach which is seen with BSN and higher.
Something which no one has pointed out to my knowledge...
One of the biggest differences between and ADN and a BSN is the liberal studies requirements.
Beyond the co-requisites for the nursing program here (which is about 33 credit hours of non NUR classes), the local university requires 27 credit hours of classes that don't have any bearing on the nursing profession. For instance, art appreciation, history, public speaking are required. That is because a BSN is a liberal studies degree from a four-year institution.
The RN to BSN program here can be completed in 2 semesters. The additional education covers writing for the nursing profession, public health nursing, nursing leadership, and nursing research. ADN obviously provides sufficient education for nurses to perform their jobs. Perhaps, the BSN is only superior in the four realms mentioned above. So, if one wants to write about nursing, be a public health nurse, be in a leadership role, or do research...perhaps one would be better off with the BSN.
Personally, the route I'm taking is the lease expensive and most sensible for me:
Something which no one has pointed out to my knowledge...
One of the biggest differences between and ADN and a BSN is the liberal studies requirements.
Beyond the co-requisites for the nursing program here (which is about 33 credit hours of non NUR classes), the local university requires 27 credit hours of classes that don't have any bearing on the nursing profession. For instance, art appreciation, history, public speaking are required. That is because a BSN is a liberal studies degree from a four-year institution.
The RN to BSN program here can be completed in 2 semesters. The additional education covers writing for the nursing profession, public health nursing, nursing leadership, and nursing research. ADN obviously provides sufficient education for nurses to perform their jobs. Perhaps, the BSN is only superior in the four realms mentioned above. So, if one wants to write about nursing, be a public health nurse, be in a leadership role, or do research...perhaps one would be better off with the BSN.
Personally, the route I'm taking is the lease expensive and most sensible for me:
ADN to BSN to MSN.
This was required at my CC, along with computer classes and enough "humanities" courses to cover the "moral" teachings lol.
I am doing ADN too, and I had to have liberal arts, history, speech, psychology, social psychology...basically an associates degree worth of classes before applying for the ADN program!
This was required at my CC, along with computer classes and enough "humanities" courses to cover the "moral" teachings lol.
At my CC, let's see...
we have 2 English, 1 Psych, 1 Computer, 1 Humanities, 1 Chem, AP1 & 2, 1 Microbiology, 1 Math in addition to the NUR classes. Luckily, it's not too Humanities heavy.
However to meet the liberal studies reqs for the BSN, I'm going to have to do a lot of Humanitizing. *sigh*
Smart is having the good sense to attend a college that you can afford.
For instance, I have a friend who is working on her BSN at the local university.
When she finishes school and her loans are tabulated, she will owe about $80K.
Me...
I go to the local CC and I am working on my ADN, which I pay for out of pocket.
My ADN (including all pre-reqs, books, and supplies) will end up costing me about $4K, when all is said and done.
Then I can do the RN-to-BSN online program FROM THE SAME UNIVERSITY as my friend, for $3.8K total.
That brings the whopping total for my BSN to $7.8K.
I will pay 1/10th of what she will for the same degree from the same university.
Isn't that smart?
Whether or not it's smart depends. Every circumstance is different, so you can't apply a "one fits all" mentality to college.
My circumstances demanded that I attend a university, and the total debt for my BSN was about what you say your friend will owe. But guess what? I CAN AFFORD THE PAYMENTS!
So don't assume that just because someone will owe a lot of money paying for college that they can't afford it. That would be true only if they could not make the payments when they get a job.
The alternative to me NOT going to college was to stay in a job making just over minimum wage. THAT is what I could not afford to do.
Edited to add: I have to amend my statement about the total debt for my BSN. I forgot that the debt I have now includes what I incurred for an associates in a different field prior to getting my BSN, so to be completely accurate, the debt for my BSN is probably about 3/4 of what I originally stated.
I have to laugh when people think that community/vocational/trade colleges have it easier. I am going to a technical college for my LPN and I have to say, it is by far the most challenging experience I've ever had in school. The pace is much quicker than a university and there is no room for 'extra credit' or 'extensions' on assignment that are usually given out in universities. I have a friend who graduated a 4 year school for her RN and she was shocked out how far we are in my class and it's only the second quarter.
I think community and trade/voc schools have an advantage as well. Smaller class sizes means more one on one with instructors and more opportunities for 'hands on' learning.
I went into this thinking that I was taking the easy way out by going to a technical college but I am so happy with that I did. I have so many friends who hold bachelor degrees and have either been unemployed for a year or more or are working in a job that is totally unrelated field to their degree.
Regardless of what others think, I'm glad I'm taking my pre-reqs at a CC. Not only is tuition less expensive, classes are smaller which contributes to a better learning experience.
I also attended a VERY well regarded and very tough CC nursing program. Every once in a while, someone will make a "community college" joke.
I tell them. "Go ahead and try to get through my nursing program - if you can get the grades to get in. Then graduate with a 4.0 in said program. Then come and talk to me about my easy community college."
I have a bachelor's degree in engineering from a four year college. That was freaking kindergarten compared to my CC nursing program. Hell, I was literally drunk taking a couple of my engineering exams.
Wrong thing to say honey... 
Goldenhare
193 Posts
Until the nursing profession decides to formally declare that our different paths of education should be weighted differently, we are all stuck with the NCLEX as the entry to practice.