So, tonight I was talking about the classes I'll be taking this fall at my local community college (one of which is chemistry which I'm a little nervous about since I've never had a chemistry class before) with my wonderful bachelor's degree holding partner who, in an attempt to ease my anxiety makes the comment "Well, it's just at a community college so the class should be pretty easy." Wrong thing to say honey...
It did however get me to thinking about the general attitudes that people have towards not only community colleges but also to vocational/trade schools. That those of us who go to such institutions are intellectually inadequate and wouldn't be able to handle the academic rigors of a 4 year college or university. This attitude is completely inaccurate, after all if my classes were so EASY then the 4 year colleges and universities in my area wouldn't have an articulation agreement which honors the credits I take at the community college. It is a different atmosphere in a community college of course, but that doesn't mean I don't have to learn the material and learn it well in order to pass.
I remember in high school when I decided to enter the Practical Nursing program at the vocational school how I received criticism, statements such as "Well, you need to go to a 4 year college, anything less is for people who are stupid." and even now when I tell people I'm an LPN and that I've been at a community college taking classes I'm greeted with a concerned expression, a half smile, and a polite nod. A voice bubble might as well pop up above their head saying, "Well, since you're a failure at life and this is all you have, I'll be happy for you." after all since I'm going to a community college it means I can't handle REAL academics.
It may sound as though I'm jealous of those who get to receive a university education and have a bachelor's degree or above and are the same age as myself. And, yes, at times I am jealous because I would have loved to have had the same experience. But that simply just wasn't my path, one day I will "pull my time" in a four year college, my path will take me there, just not yet.
I believe no matter your credentials, whether you're doctorate degree holding FNP or a certificate holding CNA that you should be incredibly proud. Whether you're bachelor's prepared RN or a diploma holding LPN you should be proud. Because all levels of education should be revered and respected and valued. I don't feel ashamed of not already being a Registered Nurse or a college graduate nor do I have any regret at first becoming a CNA and then becoming an LPN because I still am helping people and I am still living my dream and that dream was to be independent. If you're a BSN or an ADN be PROUD of it no matter what your credentials are because you earned them.
College graduates face really discouraging odds. Many are unemployed, many more are employed in something other than their field of study, and many still are up to their eyeballs in debt. My partner for instance has a bachelor's degree yet works in job making a little over minimum wage. That is why I chose the path I did. When I was 17 and I enrolled in the LPN program, I knew due to my personal and financial circumstances that I couldn't afford to go to college just yet, I needed to be self sufficient and going to a trade school and later to a community college would allow me to do that. It wasn't the right choice for everyone but it was for me, and because of that I can pay for my school one semester at a time while minimizing and most semesters avoiding student loans, not to mention a few years head start on 401k versus my peers and that feels really good.
A dear friend of mine always wanted to be a mechanic, her family, peers, etc were not supportive "only stupid people do something like that" so instead she got 2 bachelor's degrees, is jobless, and owes thousands of dollars in student loans. All this because her dream was too "stupid" in the eyes of her parents and everyone else. Side not, I know many mechanics who make more money than I do and they're all pretty happy. I think the attitude that you go to college to "make a better life for yourself" isn't always accurate. We shouldn't be telling our children that they have to go to college in order to be considered intelligent or successful. We should be telling them that in this world success isn't defined by your credentials or where you went to school or how much money you make, it's defined by getting out of life what you make of it and what you want from it. Do what you love people, whether you're a CNA or a Medical Doctor, do what you love and love what you do and be proud but above all else never assume that someone is stupid simply because their education is different from yours.
Whew... feels good to get that out.
Oh and my partner quickly apologized for what he said. Probably had something to do with the fact I spouted off this little speech in the course of sixty seconds after his comment.
Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.
Community College was a blessing for me. I was, up until my Junior Year in HS, dead-set for the University experience, but thought about it one day and changed. I graduated magna cum laude from HS spring of 2010 at 17, but I knew a few things. A.) I didn't want to wait for more years to become a RN B.) I really didn't feel ready to go off on my own C.) Even though I received financial aid, I still had finances to worry about. Community college offered the solution to all of those problems. I've met many experienced adults and people my age who have a passion to make the best out of their situation. I got some wrap about declining my entry into various school such as Gardner Webb University and Cornell University (whoch doesn't even have a nursing program). I honestly don't regret my decision.
I actually secretly laugh at the fact that I will have been a nurse a year (I start nursing school at a local A.D.N program in August) by the time my friends who pursued BSNs, BAs etc... Graduate. Also, becuase of a matriculation agreement my school has, The summer after they graduate I will also have my BSN and a year of experience to show off when looking for jobs. Yes, I am very pleased and proud of all those being smart enough to go the CC route first! I am 18 and starting nursing school in a month and wil hopefully be a RN when I'm 20, seems like a good deal to me. I also have the oppurtunity, bc of taking free vocational and community college classes for hs dual enrollment students during hs, to work as a float pool CNA at my local hospital (2 months after graduating) and get tons of experience and exposure!
What else can I ask for, I have the perfect situation here living at home, for mostly free and got the best job for a future nurse to have! Many of my friends who went away to school are either taking classes at a CC for summer school or transferring to a University closer to home do to issue while away. BC of my taking college classes throughout my last 2 summers and school years of high school and AP courses I eneered CC fall of 2010 with over 16 credit hours in college courses, after completing my first semester I was consider a sophmore. I am by no means trying to brag, I just waant people to kow that you can excel at a CC just as much as you can at a university in most ways. I feel that both provide excellent experience though!
Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.
You can't separate the 2. The ADN/BSN debate and the quality of CC education are different sides of the same coin. It is the core of the debate. If CC were at the same level and standards they would offer BSN. But, they don't. Therefore, the quality of the 2 is inherently different as their outcomes are completely DIFFERENT. You cannot take these 2 things apart and say one has nothing to do with the other. The caliber of a BSN comes from their university degree and the requirements. A CC nurse comes out with different ways of thinking and a task based approach instead of a whole picture approach which is seen with BSN and higher.
So let me just throw this out there, first your generalizing all ADN as being task focused, which would be a correct statement as all of them are not. Second, what caliber does a BSN prepared nurse have over an ADN nurse other than 2 chemistry courses, Statistics (sometimes College algebra), and A history and Humanities Class? NOt to mention if a CC has higher NCLEX pass rates. All nurses, well I would think that most trained nurses would, use the thinking mechanism known as the NURSING PROCESS. I don't think that is unique to BSN programs. Also, the reason CC don't offer BSNs is because their CCs meant to provide entry level education with an associates degree for anyone who wants to go to college, not because their low quality. It seems that if a BSN, with all of your "exposure" to critical thinking and dealing with "DIVERSE" cultures and backgrounds gives you the false impression that the nursing practice of ADN and Diploma nurses then those classes/ programs didn't teach you much. IT is important that as far as genral ed classes, many ADNs are only a handful of classes away from holding the same degree, sorry. The quality of nursing care is totally dependent on each independent nurse, not the business, history and chem classes they took. As a side note, about clinical hours most BSN students get about the same clinical hourse as an ADN student around here because just like the ADN nurse the university BSN students only go through 2 years of being in an actual nursing curriculum and clinical training, as opposed to NYU's BSN program where your nursing classes are stretched across your 4 years and not just your last to year of university.
Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.
After graduating with a BSN (and a previous bachelor of arts degree) five years ago, I completely see a difference between CC degrees and universities. CC people are much more task oriented and DO NOT see the big picture. Even nurses who have 15 years of experience but have their ADN don't get it. Say what you want, and feel whatever you want but I applaud hospitals that are ONLY hiring BSN's. Right out of the gate, a BSN has not had the same clinical hours and hand holding as the ADN, and after the 1st year a BSN is leaps and bounds ahead. It's a different way of looking at everything as a whole picture and not just the TASK at hand. Just my 2 cents & I am sure people will not like it.
There is a big difference and it's the reason why I took loans out to get my BSN.
I have no problem with your post as it is your opinion and it surely doesn't effect mine, as I'm sure mine doesn not effect you. I do, however, wonder about the statement in bold above. So is the difference that your proud of having to go into debt for your nursing education? Correct me if i'm wrong, please, but it seems that you are proud of having to go into debt to go to school? If so, just think of how proud you can be of someone who got their ADN and then their BSN in approximately the same amount of time without taking out a single loan or a much smaller loan! :yeah:I'm also sure that most dedicated nurses, irregardless of academic preparation, that have been practicing for 15 or even 10 years, would "just get it" that's they are the ones who train you when you are the scared new BSN or ADN. They been providing excellent nursing care for a long time and teach newbies the "tricks of the trade".
Now it seems to me, and this is something some might not like, some of these BSN programs do not teach their students humility. This, of course, isn't the case with all BSN students and nurses. Some however seem to support the notion that more education causes more narrow-mindedness, notice I am not directing this to the poster I quoted as I am sure they will assume as much, but to some people who view themselves as superior or in any way better prepared for life due to their "education". BSN is not a bad thing, I am pursuing one, after the completion of my ADN program though. It is when BSN, MSN or whatever nurses insinuate that their education and nursing care are "better" or of higher "quality" that they acquire dislike and disdain from the nursing community. Remember that a few years ago, and even now, you're the minority, CC and ADN programs must be doing something right because they are still the education path of most of the nurses here in the US. The people that made it possible for most of you to even get a BSN and encouraged nurses to pursue higher education often started out as Diploma and ADN nurses, and they are teaching you so that enough said.
i totally agree with everything you said, BUT maybe your friend didn't mean it as though "you must be stupid."
i got an associate's degree from a community college, a bachelor's degree from a university, and then a second bachelor's (in nursing) at a university. i have to say, my first semester of nursing courses at university hit me like a ton of bricks! i graduaded at the top of my class with my previous degrees and i didn't foresee nursing being much different. i am not someone who cries and i had never cried bc of anything related to school. i cried my way through pathophysiology. it just so happens that pathophysiology is a class that you don't have to take if you go to community college. do you still get a degree and get to work as a nurse? YES and that's all that matters. would i ever be caught saying it would be "easier" to take the courses at CC - YES. it doesn't mean anything other than what it is - BS nurses have to take a few courses that are generally perceived as being difficult. a lot of people fail those select courses and end up going to CC where they can still be a nurse and not have to take them. i thought i might be one of those people and i'm far from "stupid." it just would've been easier had i failed the class to go to CC where i wouldn't have to take the class, and i could still be a nurse. i wouldn't take it so personally.
I went to a CC and took patho for a pre-req.. Just pointing out that every school is different! Esp. state to state
Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.
Some nursing schools (both ADN and BSN) include patho-physiology inside the program as a part of the nursing curriculum as a co-requisite (my school does). Most of the University BSN around here (Southeast NC) don't require Patho as prereq before entering the nursing curriculum either.
Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.
So let me just throw this out there, first your generalizing all ADN as being task focused, which would not be a correct statement as all of them are not. Second, what caliber does a BSN prepared nurse have over an ADN nurse other than 2 chemistry courses, Statistics (sometimes College algebra), and A history and Humanities Class? Not to mention if a CC has higher NCLEX pass rates. All nurses, well I would think that most trained nurses would, use the thinking mechanism known as the NURSING PROCESS. I don't think (I know) that is not unique to BSN programs. Also, the reason CCs don't offer BSNs is because their CCs meant to provide entry level education with an associates degree for anyone who wants to go to college, not because their low quality. It seems that if a BSN, with all of the "exposure" to critical thinking and dealing with "DIVERSE" cultures and backgrounds it gives you, gives you the false impression that the nursing practice of ADN and Diploma nurses is inadequate compared to that of a BSN then those extra classes/ the program didn't teach you much. It is important to note that as far as general ed classes, many ADNs are only a handful of classes away from holding the same degree, sorry. The quality of nursing care is totally dependent on each independent nurse, not the business, history and chem classes they took. As a side note, about clinical hours most BSN students get about the same clinical hours as an ADN student around here because just like the ADN nurse the university BSN students only go through 2 years of being in an actual nursing curriculum and clinical training, as opposed to, let's say, NYU's BSN program where your nursing classes are stretched across your 4 years and not just your last to year of university.
I made some changes! Sorry I was typing on a blackberry. :)
How do you mean that CC in your area is "competitive?"
CC in my area only requires a minimum GPA in their pre-reqs to get on a wait list for the nursing program. Once on the list, there is no competition to get in, you just wait your turn. Having to maintain a B throughout the program doesn't mean you are competing because you get to stay in the program as long as you get the grades.
Universities, however, have no wait list. You can apply if you meet the minimum GPA, which is higher than CC. If you are chosen to move forward in the process, you must take a test and write an essay. If you are chosen to move forward after that, you have an individual interview. If you are not selected to attend the program after the interview, you may reapply and compete against a new cohort the next semester, or year, depending on how often they start a new program. Each time you apply you are competing against all other applicants for a seat in the program without any guarantee that you will ever get in. That's what competition is.
Now, all of that doesn't necessarily mean that CC isn't a quality education. I agree with another poster who said it depends on the program, whether CC or university.
The CC I attended for my ADN did away with the waiting list years ago. It is all academically based. I was a full-time student taking pre-req's (anatomy, physiology, micro, & patho to name a few for 3 semesters) before I could even apply to the 2 year long nursing program. I was competing against people with 3.5-4.0 GPA's, Basically if your not getting high B's or A's your not getting into the program.. So I can relate and say that the CC in my area is extremely competitive. I may reside in the smallest state but for some reason I keep hearing from majority of floor nurses in several different hospitals that they love when the CC student nurses come in for clinicals, and trust me I always ask why! I think ill keep that to myself..
The CC I attended for my ADN did away with the waiting list years ago. It is all academically based. I was a full-time student taking pre-req's (anatomy, physiology, micro, & patho to name a few for 3 semesters) before I could even apply to the 2 year long nursing program. I was competing against people with 3.5-4.0 GPA's, Basically if your not getting high B's or A's your not getting into the program.. So I can relate and say that the CC in my area is extremely competitive. I may reside in the smallest state but for some reason I keep hearing from majority of floor nurses in several different hospitals that they love when the CC student nurses come in for clinicals, and trust me I always ask why! I think ill keep that to myself..
Yes, I've heard that before too, but always from ADNs posting on a BB and never from anyone, management or nurses, at work. Besides, the fact that many hospitals now prefer BSNs, and some will hire ONLY BSNs kind of negates those opinions.
Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.
Well, The fact that some hospital will only hire BSNs isn't necessarily bc they view them as a better investment, but simply bc many must have a certain percentange of BSN nurses for various accredidations and for Magnet Status. These accredidations keep them in a good light with the community and keeps money coming in. So in those cases they do what's best for the entire hospital and not just nurses. Trust, in my hospital the majority of those in nursing administration, management, and supervising were A.D.Ns until 5 or 6 years ago when they were "forced" to go back to school to keep the jobs as Nursing Supervisors, Unit Managers, ADON etc.... Most say if they hadn't been told this they probably wouldn"t have pursuedtheir BSNs and MSNs, but they are happy they got it over with. They all are mostly still favor ADNs (then again the could be considred biased) even if they can't alaways hire as many as they like, becuase they can't just hire A.D.Ns and no BSN nurses do to various accredidation requirements, such as the magnet status we have. True, we have many BSNs now but 60% of them were AND or diploma nurses who bridged. I don't think its fair to not hire BSNs due to the stereotypical stigma that floats about them nor do I feel its fair to do that to A.D.Ns for the same reason, but of course I don't a hospital, nor the world so yea.
Well, The fact that some hospital will only hire BSNs isn't necessarily bc they view them as a better investment, but simply bc many must have a certain percentange of BSN nurses for various accredidations and for Magnet Status. These accredidations keep them in a good light with the community and keeps money coming in. So in those cases they do what's best for the entire hospital and not just nurses. Trust, in my hospital the majority of those in nursing administration, management, and supervising were A.D.Ns until 5 or 6 years ago when they were "forced" to go back to school to keep the jobs as Nursing Supervisors, Unit Managers, ADON etc.... Most say if they hadn't been told this they probably wouldn"t have pursuedtheir BSNs and MSNs, but they are happy they got it over with. They all are mostly still favor ADNs (then again the could be considred biased) even if they can't alaways hire as many as they like, becuase they can't just hire A.D.Ns and no BSN nurses do to various accredidation requirements, such as the magnet status we have. True, we have many BSNs now but 60% of them were AND or diploma nurses who bridged. I don't think its fair to not hire BSNs due to the stereotypical stigma that floats about them nor do I feel its fair to do that to A.D.Ns for the same reason, but of course I don't a hospital, nor the world so yea.
I never said that BSNs are better or are a better investment, only that there is no weight to the argument that some put forth that ADNs are better.
As for accreditation and Magnet Status, if percentages were the only reason BSNs are necessary, there would be no point in some hospitals hiring ONLY BSNs. Besides, those hospitals with Magnet Status are very few among all hospitals in the country, and they certainly do not comprise all of the hospitals who prefer BSNs or hire them exclusively.
Wrong thing to say honey... 
PatMac10,RN, RN
1 Article; 1,164 Posts
Community College was a blessing for me. I was, up until my Junior Year in HS, dead-set for the University experience, but thought about it one day and changed. I graduated magna cum laude from HS spring of 2010 at 17, but I knew a few things. A.) I didn't want to wait for more years to become a RN B.) I really didn't feel ready to go off on my own C.) Even though I received financial aid, I still had finances to worry about. Community college offered the solution to all of those problems. I've met many experienced adults and people my age who have a passion to make the best out of their situation. I got some wrap about declining my entry into various school such as Gardner Webb University and Cornell University (whoch doesn't even have a nursing program). I honestly don't regret my decision.
I actually secretly laugh at the fact that I will have been a nurse a year (I start nursing school at a local A.D.N program in August) by the time my friends who pursued BSNs, BAs etc... Graduate. Also, becuase of a matriculation agreement my school has, The summer after they graduate I will also have my BSN and a year of experience to show off when looking for jobs. Yes, I am very pleased and proud of all those being smart enough to go the CC route first! I am 18 and starting nursing school in a month and wil hopefully be a RN when I'm 20, seems like a good deal to me. I also have the oppurtunity, bc of taking free vocational and community college classes for hs dual enrollment students during hs, to work as a float pool CNA at my local hospital (2 months after graduating) and get tons of experience and exposure!
What else can I ask for, I have the perfect situation here living at home, for mostly free and got the best job for a future nurse to have! Many of my friends who went away to school are either taking classes at a CC for summer school or transferring to a University closer to home do to issue while away. BC of my taking college classes throughout my last 2 summers and school years of high school and AP courses I eneered CC fall of 2010 with over 16 credit hours in college courses, after completing my first semester I was consider a sophmore. I am by no means trying to brag, I just waant people to kow that you can excel at a CC just as much as you can at a university in most ways. I feel that both provide excellent experience though!