So, tonight I was talking about the classes I'll be taking this fall at my local community college (one of which is chemistry which I'm a little nervous about since I've never had a chemistry class before) with my wonderful bachelor's degree holding partner who, in an attempt to ease my anxiety makes the comment "Well, it's just at a community college so the class should be pretty easy." Wrong thing to say honey...
It did however get me to thinking about the general attitudes that people have towards not only community colleges but also to vocational/trade schools. That those of us who go to such institutions are intellectually inadequate and wouldn't be able to handle the academic rigors of a 4 year college or university. This attitude is completely inaccurate, after all if my classes were so EASY then the 4 year colleges and universities in my area wouldn't have an articulation agreement which honors the credits I take at the community college. It is a different atmosphere in a community college of course, but that doesn't mean I don't have to learn the material and learn it well in order to pass.
I remember in high school when I decided to enter the Practical Nursing program at the vocational school how I received criticism, statements such as "Well, you need to go to a 4 year college, anything less is for people who are stupid." and even now when I tell people I'm an LPN and that I've been at a community college taking classes I'm greeted with a concerned expression, a half smile, and a polite nod. A voice bubble might as well pop up above their head saying, "Well, since you're a failure at life and this is all you have, I'll be happy for you." after all since I'm going to a community college it means I can't handle REAL academics.
It may sound as though I'm jealous of those who get to receive a university education and have a bachelor's degree or above and are the same age as myself. And, yes, at times I am jealous because I would have loved to have had the same experience. But that simply just wasn't my path, one day I will "pull my time" in a four year college, my path will take me there, just not yet.
I believe no matter your credentials, whether you're doctorate degree holding FNP or a certificate holding CNA that you should be incredibly proud. Whether you're bachelor's prepared RN or a diploma holding LPN you should be proud. Because all levels of education should be revered and respected and valued. I don't feel ashamed of not already being a Registered Nurse or a college graduate nor do I have any regret at first becoming a CNA and then becoming an LPN because I still am helping people and I am still living my dream and that dream was to be independent. If you're a BSN or an ADN be PROUD of it no matter what your credentials are because you earned them.
College graduates face really discouraging odds. Many are unemployed, many more are employed in something other than their field of study, and many still are up to their eyeballs in debt. My partner for instance has a bachelor's degree yet works in job making a little over minimum wage. That is why I chose the path I did. When I was 17 and I enrolled in the LPN program, I knew due to my personal and financial circumstances that I couldn't afford to go to college just yet, I needed to be self sufficient and going to a trade school and later to a community college would allow me to do that. It wasn't the right choice for everyone but it was for me, and because of that I can pay for my school one semester at a time while minimizing and most semesters avoiding student loans, not to mention a few years head start on 401k versus my peers and that feels really good.
A dear friend of mine always wanted to be a mechanic, her family, peers, etc were not supportive "only stupid people do something like that" so instead she got 2 bachelor's degrees, is jobless, and owes thousands of dollars in student loans. All this because her dream was too "stupid" in the eyes of her parents and everyone else. Side not, I know many mechanics who make more money than I do and they're all pretty happy. I think the attitude that you go to college to "make a better life for yourself" isn't always accurate. We shouldn't be telling our children that they have to go to college in order to be considered intelligent or successful. We should be telling them that in this world success isn't defined by your credentials or where you went to school or how much money you make, it's defined by getting out of life what you make of it and what you want from it. Do what you love people, whether you're a CNA or a Medical Doctor, do what you love and love what you do and be proud but above all else never assume that someone is stupid simply because their education is different from yours.
Whew... feels good to get that out.
Oh and my partner quickly apologized for what he said. Probably had something to do with the fact I spouted off this little speech in the course of sixty seconds after his comment.
I think that it is appalling that some of the people who have BSNs are so full of their own self-righteousness that they feel they are superior. That is what gives BSNs a bad name. Unless you have attended an ADN program you are in no position to judge the quality of that program. That is for NLN to do.
I think that it is appalling that some of the people who have BSNs are so full of their own self-righteousness that they feel they are superior. That is what gives BSNs a bad name. Unless you have attended an ADN program you are in no position to judge the quality of that program. That is for NLN to do.
BTW, I do have a BSN.
Yes, of course, bash the BSNs. Strange how rarely I've ever seen anyone challenge the notion that many ADNs have that they are the superior ones.
Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.
Yes, of course, bash the BSNs. Strange how rarely I've ever seen anyone challenge the notion that many ADNs have that they are the superior ones.
It seems the reason for this is because you mostly here much things from BSN in many cases, but of course there are some A.D.Ns who feel they are superior and will voice it, but in my area, and most according to the post by nurses o this website, it is ostly those with the "higher" degree who flaunt or carry on about their significant difference, training, and better quality care. That's what I!e observed at least.
It seems the reason for this is because you mostly here much things from BSN in many cases, but of course there are some A.D.Ns who feel they are superior and will voice it, but in my area, and most according to the post by nurses o this website, it is ostly those with the "higher" degree who flaunt or carry on about their significant difference, training, and better quality care. That's what I!e observed at least.
I've never had the experience of any BSN flaunting a degree in the workplace. I have only seen it on a BB. But even threads that I have followed where the discussion has been professional and respectful, it never fails that the "ADNs are better because everyone loves us more" comments are brought up, and virtually no one ever challenges the myth. I never used to either, but there came a time when I had to point out how ridiculous this argument is.
Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.
QUOTE=GM2RN;5344841]I've never had the experience of any BSN flaunting a degree in the workplace. I have only seen it on a BB. But even threads that I have followed where the discussion has been professional and respectful, it never fails that the "ADNs are better because everyone loves us more" comments are brought up, and virtually no one ever challenges the myth. I never used to either, but there came a time when I had to point out how ridiculous this argument is.
Lolz! Well, I have witnessed it plenty of times from both BSN, A.D.Ns, MSNs, and DNPs. Just wait a little longer it's bound to happen eventually. If it is not said it is portrayed by a nurses actions, which scream a lot louder than words. I can understand your argument though, no one like to here how much better another person or group is compared to another.
Yes, of course, bash the BSNs. Strange how rarely I've ever seen anyone challenge the notion that many ADNs have that they are the superior ones.
I really don't get the sense from their posts that I get from some of the BSN posts touting about how much better their education is. I am embarrassed by this kind of put down. It makes me feel that the ADNs will think we who have a BSN are all this way. I am sure this attitude crosses over into the workplace, and it is nasty.
I really don't get the sense from their posts that I get from some of the BSN posts touting about how much better their education is. I am embarrassed by this kind of put down. It makes me feel that the ADNs will think we who have a BSN are all this way. I am sure this attitude crosses over into the workplace, and it is nasty.
I would say that it all depends on which threads you are reading. Some that I have followed have mostly ADNs posting, and their attitudes can be just as bad as some BSNs.
I think that it is appalling that some of the people who have BSNs are so full of their own self-righteousness that they feel they are superior. That is what gives BSNs a bad name. Unless you have attended an ADN program you are in no position to judge the quality of that program. That is for NLN to do.
BTW, I do have a BSN.
This is true, most certainly. But ADNs are not completely innocent of it. They just beat the BSNs with a different stick. More often than not, it is the "Lack of ablility to adapt to the clinical/bedside life". It took me a long time to get over my learned prejudices of the BSN degree so that I could motivate myself to go back to school. And, for myself, I was able to come up with the answer as to what getting said BSN would mean.
The feeling that I get is a desperate sense of self-defense from the ADNs. ADNs have been persecuted since the degree first took off. Initially the majority were diploma nurses who did not get a college degree, but went for three years, much of it spent staffing the hospital and learning from experience. They often had professors from the local colleges but did not get that set of letters that makes the credits easy to transfer.
Diploma nurses were resentful that the ADN only had to go two years, therefore they must be inferior! And to add insult to injury the ADN was welcomed by the BSN programs and given lots of advanced standing credits.
Now we have a different friction. We are down to two RN majorities, as most of the diploma schools have closed or worked things out so as to get their students an ADN. I see the BSN quickly overtaking the ADN programs. It does not mean one is of better quality than another. They are just different.
I remember a time when we had Waiver Nurses. I bet a lot of you never even heard of such a thing. These were a type of LPN who was granted licensure by waiver. They did not actually go to nursing school but learned on the job. Can you imagine how they were treated? Or maybe this whole "my license is better than yours" attitude started after that. I don't know. Everything changes.
LPNs were going to be phased out in the 80s. Then they found that they were actually cost effective and cost became paramount with the implementation of DRGs. So they were important again. More recently we are seeing increased acuity levels in all settings, increased technology and need for case management. LPNs are finding it a little rough out there again.
Maybe we need to as a profession put this whole issue to a vote. Every nurse gets a ballot with their license renewal. Should we maintain all these entry levels? Should we eliminate LPNs and make the ADN a separate entity?- the "Technical Nurse" as they were going to call it back in the 80s? Should we make a BSN the entry level to practice as an RN? Should we give BSNs a new designation to reflect the additional classes? (And no, it is not just humanities classes. There are also additional nursing courses in a BSN program). RN+? SUPER DUPER RN? BSRN? RNMAX? RRN? LOL
I think we need to come to a consensus on this issue and we should all have some say in it. We all work in the field and we are all stakeholders. Why is it that Physical Therapy and Pharmacy can come to a decision on these things, but we can't? Is it because of the variety of nursing roles out there? I don't know.
Change is so painfully slow for nursing because we have such inertia. No one seems to lead the way. We are all focused on clinical issues, rather than unity as a profession, leadership and growth. Nurse Practitioners seem to be the only ones who have any focus. The rest of us just plod along doing our jobs, hoping to keep our jobs. We need someone dynamic - a new vision. Maybe some future president will have a nurse wife? There is always hope.
DISCLAIMER: I mean no offense by the above made up titles, it was all in jest since some of the BSNs seem to feel supreme.
The feeling that I get is a desperate sense of self-defense from the ADNs. ADNs have been persecuted since the degree first took off. Initially the majority were diploma nurses who did not get a college degree, but went for three years, much of it spent staffing the hospital and learning from experience. They often had professors from the local colleges but did not get that set of letters that makes the credits easy to transfer.
Diploma nurses were resentful that the ADN only had to go two years, therefore they must be inferior! And to add insult to injury the ADN was welcomed by the BSN programs and given lots of advanced standing credits.
Now we have a different friction. We are down to two RN majorities, as most of the diploma schools have closed or worked things out so as to get their students an ADN. I see the BSN quickly overtaking the ADN programs. It does not mean one is of better quality than another. They are just different.
I remember a time when we had Waiver Nurses. I bet a lot of you never even heard of such a thing. These were a type of LPN who was granted licensure by waiver. They did not actually go to nursing school but learned on the job. Can you imagine how they were treated? Or maybe this whole "my license is better than yours" attitude started after that. I don't know. Everything changes.
LPNs were going to be phased out in the 80s. Then they found that they were actually cost effective and cost became paramount with the implementation of DRGs. So they were important again. More recently we are seeing increased acuity levels in all settings, increased technology and need for case management. LPNs are finding it a little rough out there again.
Maybe we need to as a profession put this whole issue to a vote. Every nurse gets a ballot with their license renewal. Should we maintain all these entry levels? Should we eliminate LPNs and make the ADN a separate entity?- the "Technical Nurse" as they were going to call it back in the 80s? Should we make a BSN the entry level to practice as an RN? Should we give BSNs a new designation to reflect the additional classes? (And no, it is not just humanities classes. There are also additional nursing courses in a BSN program). RN+? SUPER DUPER RN? BSRN? RNMAX? RRN? LOL
I think we need to come to a consensus on this issue and we should all have some say in it. We all work in the field and we are all stakeholders. Why is it that Physical Therapy and Pharmacy can come to a decision on these things, but we can't? Is it because of the variety of nursing roles out there? I don't know.
Change is so painfully slow for nursing because we have such inertia. No one seems to lead the way. We are all focused on clinical issues, rather than unity as a profession, leadership and growth. Nurse Practitioners seem to be the only ones who have any focus. The rest of us just plod along doing our jobs, hoping to keep our jobs. We need someone dynamic - a new vision. Maybe some future president will have a nurse wife? There is always hope.
DISCLAIMER: I mean no offense by the above made up titles, it was all in jest since some of the BSNs seem to feel supreme.
What you say may all be true and have some relevance to other parts of this thread, but has nothing whatsoever to do with bad attitudes or behavior. It's just an excuse.
I know. I should not stick up for others. That is the advocate in me. You are right of course. I can't help the attitudes of the masses. Everyone will always think that their program was the best. It is only natural. I give up. Haters feel free to hate. I will not interfere.
I will say it again. Until the nursing profession, or as a whole, decides that we are indeed NOT equal to each other with our diploma nurses, ADN nurses, LPN nurses, and BSN nurses, we are stuck with each other. We have to learn from each other and our individual experiences. We ought to rejoice that we are so diverse. My mother was a diploma nurse and absolutely resented training every degree nurse that came to her floor, who was making more money than her with her 20 years experience-at that point. I am a ADN nurse with a previous BS degree that a nursing adviser at Virginia Commonwealth University said was 3 classes (only) off a BSN. (She told me don't bother getting a BSN unless I was going on to a MSN). I've worked with some great BSN's and some great LPN's. And I've worked with a few I wouldn't let take care of my dog. But we all bring something to the table. But right now, the NCLEX is what makes us the same. The bashing has really got to end. If we want a higher level of education, then let's collectively work for that. If we would all benefit from more clinical experience, then let's work towards that. But until the definition of entry level practice changes, we all are equal on paper.
Wrong thing to say honey... 
Wishinonastar, BSN
1 Article; 1,000 Posts
I think that it is appalling that some of the people who have BSNs are so full of their own self-righteousness that they feel they are superior. That is what gives BSNs a bad name. Unless you have attended an ADN program you are in no position to judge the quality of that program. That is for NLN to do.
BTW, I do have a BSN.