So, tonight I was talking about the classes I'll be taking this fall at my local community college (one of which is chemistry which I'm a little nervous about since I've never had a chemistry class before) with my wonderful bachelor's degree holding partner who, in an attempt to ease my anxiety makes the comment "Well, it's just at a community college so the class should be pretty easy." Wrong thing to say honey...
It did however get me to thinking about the general attitudes that people have towards not only community colleges but also to vocational/trade schools. That those of us who go to such institutions are intellectually inadequate and wouldn't be able to handle the academic rigors of a 4 year college or university. This attitude is completely inaccurate, after all if my classes were so EASY then the 4 year colleges and universities in my area wouldn't have an articulation agreement which honors the credits I take at the community college. It is a different atmosphere in a community college of course, but that doesn't mean I don't have to learn the material and learn it well in order to pass.
I remember in high school when I decided to enter the Practical Nursing program at the vocational school how I received criticism, statements such as "Well, you need to go to a 4 year college, anything less is for people who are stupid." and even now when I tell people I'm an LPN and that I've been at a community college taking classes I'm greeted with a concerned expression, a half smile, and a polite nod. A voice bubble might as well pop up above their head saying, "Well, since you're a failure at life and this is all you have, I'll be happy for you." after all since I'm going to a community college it means I can't handle REAL academics.
It may sound as though I'm jealous of those who get to receive a university education and have a bachelor's degree or above and are the same age as myself. And, yes, at times I am jealous because I would have loved to have had the same experience. But that simply just wasn't my path, one day I will "pull my time" in a four year college, my path will take me there, just not yet.
I believe no matter your credentials, whether you're doctorate degree holding FNP or a certificate holding CNA that you should be incredibly proud. Whether you're bachelor's prepared RN or a diploma holding LPN you should be proud. Because all levels of education should be revered and respected and valued. I don't feel ashamed of not already being a Registered Nurse or a college graduate nor do I have any regret at first becoming a CNA and then becoming an LPN because I still am helping people and I am still living my dream and that dream was to be independent. If you're a BSN or an ADN be PROUD of it no matter what your credentials are because you earned them.
College graduates face really discouraging odds. Many are unemployed, many more are employed in something other than their field of study, and many still are up to their eyeballs in debt. My partner for instance has a bachelor's degree yet works in job making a little over minimum wage. That is why I chose the path I did. When I was 17 and I enrolled in the LPN program, I knew due to my personal and financial circumstances that I couldn't afford to go to college just yet, I needed to be self sufficient and going to a trade school and later to a community college would allow me to do that. It wasn't the right choice for everyone but it was for me, and because of that I can pay for my school one semester at a time while minimizing and most semesters avoiding student loans, not to mention a few years head start on 401k versus my peers and that feels really good.
A dear friend of mine always wanted to be a mechanic, her family, peers, etc were not supportive "only stupid people do something like that" so instead she got 2 bachelor's degrees, is jobless, and owes thousands of dollars in student loans. All this because her dream was too "stupid" in the eyes of her parents and everyone else. Side not, I know many mechanics who make more money than I do and they're all pretty happy. I think the attitude that you go to college to "make a better life for yourself" isn't always accurate. We shouldn't be telling our children that they have to go to college in order to be considered intelligent or successful. We should be telling them that in this world success isn't defined by your credentials or where you went to school or how much money you make, it's defined by getting out of life what you make of it and what you want from it. Do what you love people, whether you're a CNA or a Medical Doctor, do what you love and love what you do and be proud but above all else never assume that someone is stupid simply because their education is different from yours.
Whew... feels good to get that out.
Oh and my partner quickly apologized for what he said. Probably had something to do with the fact I spouted off this little speech in the course of sixty seconds after his comment.
Ha ha. Tell that to my dad who scored a free ride to Stanford because of the classes/internships he had at a lowly community college. Or to his bosses at NASA that recruited him straight from community college.
I think that is part of the reason my parents pushed so hard for me to go to CC before a uni because I needed to figure out what the hell I wanted to actually do with my life and it being cheaper, was a good idea. I learned A LOT, its where I got my EMT, and credit it with getting me interested in school again.
I have been to both- about the same. Some teachers teach at both. One course that I had at both - statistics - was easier at the CC but it was for 3 credits instead of 4 as it was at the U. That explains the difference. Plus the instructor was so much better at explaining difficult concepts at the CC!!!
When I got my RN, I went to CC for time/cost and they also had a higher pass rate on NCLEX than the university, and they did for several years. (I have not looked recently.) I worked in a doctor's office and a hospital, and asked every nurse and MD I knew what they recommended, and they all said the RNs from CC were better than from the 4yr program. One doc told me that in a couple of years, he could tell no difference, but the new grads from CC were way better.
Then I did an online RN>BSN program and worked very hard. My GPA was within .03 of my RN GPA and my previous degree as well, so I feel pretty good about that. It was not a piece of cake and I worked as hard as I ever do, so I totally feel I earned that BSN & GPA, and it was not a diploma mill, as some educational snobs might think
I think school is what it is, and we learn SO much more after graduation, while we are working--- to me, this is how and when I learned to be a nurse. Good mentors, great managers and loving my job are the best ways for me.
I actually went to a private 4 yr college right after high school b/c my family wanted me to be a doctor. Well, that lasted about a year. I came home, went to CC, and became a nurse. Now I'm going back to school again, choosing CC again (for many reasons) but will eventually pursue the higher degree as needed and my new career demands. There are obviously advantages to both and it really depends on what you want to do with your life. Education is never a waste!
After graduating with a BSN (and a previous bachelor of arts degree) five years ago, I completely see a difference between CC degrees and universities. CC people are much more task oriented and DO NOT see the big picture. Even nurses who have 15 years of experience but have their ADN don't get it. Say what you want, and feel whatever you want but I applaud hospitals that are ONLY hiring BSN's. Right out of the gate, a BSN has not had the same clinical hours and hand holding as the ADN, and after the 1st year a BSN is leaps and bounds ahead. It's a different way of looking at everything as a whole picture and not just the TASK at hand. Just my 2 cents & I am sure people will not like it.
There is a big difference and it's the reason why I took loans out to get my BSN.
We are talking about the quality of CC education though, not the ADN/BSN debate.
Most CC nursing programs are NLN accredited- very rigorous. They do this so that the credits will transfer and their students will pass boards and be excellent nurses. The education of an ADN is different than that of a BSN, but they can both have a high quality education. Just having a 4 year degree does not mean that you went to a quality program. There are some schools out there that are supposed to be University or College programs that are not reputable at all.
After graduating with a BSN (and a previous bachelor of arts degree) five years ago, I completely see a difference between CC degrees and universities. CC people are much more task oriented and DO NOT see the big picture. Even nurses who have 15 years of experience but have their ADN don't get it. Say what you want, and feel whatever you want but I applaud hospitals that are ONLY hiring BSN's. Right out of the gate, a BSN has not had the same clinical hours and hand holding as the ADN, and after the 1st year a BSN is leaps and bounds ahead. It's a different way of looking at everything as a whole picture and not just the TASK at hand. Just my 2 cents & I am sure people will not like it.
There is a big difference and it's the reason why I took loans out to get my BSN.
I'm actually getting my BSN now. I have my reasons. This isn't one of them. Most people I know of who went ADN first then onto BSN consider their RN2BSN courses to be, for the most part......fluff. APA writing and a lot of stuff that sounds good in theory but reflects..........that it was created by people with limited bedside experience.
I was, in another thread long ago, asking a very serious question, and no one can answer it:
In being able to take into account the "big picture" instead of being task oriented, given the same patient and same resources, what exactly gets done by the BSN trained nurse that doesn't get done by the ADN trained nurse? Where in the course of care does your interventions and actions differ from that of an ADN trained nurse?
No one can answer that. One person gave me a reason which I can kinda accept, which is that it is Zen-ish and not so easily explained, it just happens (and that came from an ADN to BSN nurse). So, do you have a better example/explination?
UM, that may be true of some ADNs, but not even half, in my experience. It prob relates to their previous work/life experience and their age. Most RNs I know are able to think globally and collegiately whether they have a 2 or 4yr degree. Just my opinion.
"In being able to take into account the "big picture" instead of being task oriented, given the same patient and same resources, what exactly gets done by the BSN trained nurse that doesn't get done by the ADN trained nurse? Where in the course of care does your interventions and actions differ from that of an ADN trained nurse?"
Yeah, I wonder the same question, myself. Floor nursing IS task oriented. Supervising and being charge are more, and managing a unit is even more. Lots of ADN nurses make great bosses and some of the BSN nurses are terrible at it ( actual experience with this one )
Also, as has been probably pointed out already, the amount of credits I took to get my ADN and my previous degrees put me way ahead of a simple BSN program, with much more scope. It is all in the performance and the outcomes, and what kind of people we are, I think... And it is nice to see nurses encouraging each other to get as much education as they possibly can, including certifications. It is all valuable, always.
I got a BS degree from a major university in 1985. In 2005, I got a ADN from a community college.
The community college was in a major Virginia city. We shared clinical facilities with a University. At the end of our degree year, our nursing adviser told us that every year, she and the Universities nursing representative would get together to talk about the forecast for new nursing students, since they effectively have to divide resources between the two schools. The university rep asked the CC rep asked what the CC pass rate was on the NCLEX. The CC rep replied "over 98%". The University rep asked "What review class do you use?" The CC rep replied "We don't use one." To which the University rep replied "You liar!" Problem was, the CC NCLEX pass rate was higher than the the University's NCLEX pass rate. I looked it up and it was true. My degree cost about $5000.00. The University degree? About $24,000 (tuition). We have to pass the same test to practice.
It seems that a discussion about the quality of a CC nursing degree is difficult to separate from the ADN/BSN controversy. Otherwise how would we rate the ADN degree; to what would we compare it ?
Wrong thing to say honey... 
Just my opinion.
That Guy, BSN, RN, EMT-B
3,421 Posts
Ha ha. Tell that to my dad who scored a free ride to Stanford because of the classes/internships he had at a lowly community college. Or to his bosses at NASA that recruited him straight from community college.
I think that is part of the reason my parents pushed so hard for me to go to CC before a uni because I needed to figure out what the hell I wanted to actually do with my life and it being cheaper, was a good idea. I learned A LOT, its where I got my EMT, and credit it with getting me interested in school again.
Elitist Scum Sucks.