College too easy for it's own good?

[tothepointeLVN]

I came across this article originally posted in the LA Times last year and it broaches a few issues that have come up on AN in the last week or two so I thought I'd present it for discussion.

http://www.elcamino.edu/administration/board/agendas/2008/June_2011.pdf

The article in question is the first one but the others are worth reading also. I couldn't access the original article without having to login to the LA Times. An alternate link to just the article is below.

http://www.edmondsun.com/opinion/x775916961/College-too-easy-for-its-own-good

This in particular disturbed me.

In a typical semester, 50% of students did not take a single course requiring more than 20 pages of writing, 32% did not have any classes that required reading more than 40 pages per week, and 36% reported studying alone five or fewer hours per week.

The article does go onto to say that traditional arts and science programs seem to the exception.

[cardiacrocks, BSN, RN]

I do not agree with all of this at all. I have two bachelor's degrees. One I majored in psychology, GPA 3.6, did a great deal of writing, minored in philosophy (taught me to argue and make my point quickly, lol.) However, when it came to obtaining my BSN it was some of the hardest work load I've ever done. I was constantly studying had many, many papers, well over 20 pages! Had A's and B's and earned everyone of them, trust me. I studied my butt off, because first of all I knew that this stuff I needed to remember for LIFE. Nursing has to still be one of the toughest subjects out there. This is just my two cents of course but I disagree with what is being said here, sorry.

[33762FL]

I think it depends on the school and the major. Nursing school certainly was not easy, nor is my RN-BSN. However, I went to a "prestigious" liberal arts college in the late 90's and majored in English. A few hours per week were spent in class but the rest was spent working a minimum wage job, watching reruns of Seinfeld and the Drew Carey show, manicuring my nails, and drinking wine. I wrote a few papers, usually while drinking the wine, and got B's for all my shoddy work. In retrospect, I don't think I went to college, I think I went to a really boring New England resort town where once in a while you sat in a class, read a book, or wrote a paper.

[caliotter3]

Having gone to school during different decades, I have noticed that more so now, it depends more on the individual instructor. More rare today to find an instructor that upholds high standards. Back in the _____ decade, most instructors upheld high standards. At least that was the situation at the schools I attended.

[citylights89, BSN, RN]

All of this is very valid, but sometime is school just easier for some people? Don't some people just say "Ha Ha! I laugh in the face of school! This is so easy-schmeezy for me! Muhahaha!" I know that may not be for the majority, but it's a reasonable thought.

And then, some people are such slackers they couldn't get a decent grade if the professor said they would get an A for just breathing right. They still couldn't get it.

[brillohead, ADN, RN]

Some thoughts...

I first went to college 25 years ago for a different major (never finished). So now I'm in my 40s and going back to college for nursing. My pre-req classes were a joke -- I ended up with grades of 107% and 102% in Anatomy and Physiology, respectively, because of how easy the classes were and how much extra-credit was available. I couldn't believe that instructors now HAND OUT their notes (and/or provide access to their PowerPoints online) to students. That would have NEVER happened back in the 1980s, and it makes me weep for the future if this is how colleges/universities are training the youth of today.

I'm a little happier with the experience in the nursing courses from an academic standpoint -- while they do supply PowerPoints for downloading/printing before class, the slides are not so detailed that you don't need to take any notes at all -- you supplement the slides with things mentioned in lecture. There is no such thing as extra-credit in any of the nursing courses. And as everyone already knows, the amount of reading per week is counted in hundreds of pages, not dozens. Nobody's going to float through nursing school getting easy As in every class -- they're going to have to work for it.

A few years ago, a local philanthropist set up a fund to pay the college tuition (to a public school in this state) for every student who graduated from a certain school district. Sadly, it wasn't until AFTER this huge financial contribution was made that the school district itself revamped the entire curriculum, from kindergarten through 12th grade, so that graduates would be college-ready when they received their diploma. They also set up rules that kids who didn't read at grade level at certain ages would have to either attend summer school or repeat the previous grade until they did read at the minimum grade level. They also set up programs to have mentors, tutors, etc., work with at-risk kids of all ages.

How PATHETIC is that??? Why on earth did they have a curriculum that didn't prepare kids for college in the first place? Why didn't they demand that kids read at grade level in the first place? If they knew that at-risk kids needed mentoring and tutoring, why didn't they set up those programs beforehand? And take note -- the philanthropist's donation did NOT go to the school district directly -- it went into a totally separate foundation and is administered separately from the school district's funds. It's an entirely different entity offering a scholarship for everyone who happens to graduate from that particular district. The school didn't have any financial windfall as a result of this scholarship program which allowed them to afford to put all these changes into effect; they're doing all this with their same per-student budget allowance from the state. So why didn't they even TRY to educate kids prior to the scholarship program???? Because nobody expected them to, obviously....

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

All of this is very valid, but sometime is school just easier for some people? Don't some people just say "Ha Ha! I laugh in the face of school! This is so easy-schmeezy for me! Muhahaha!" I know that may not be for the majority, but it's a reasonable thought.

Yes thats explains a small part of it but not everything. In my area there's an ad by one of the oil companies talking about how they are going to help fund education and how far the US is behind in science. My country is 4th on the list for excelling in science and this is the point I'm making.

I moved here took 3 years off from college and there was a profound difference in what was expected of college level students. Ironically in the US there is a big emphasis placed on attendance but not so much on achievement. In NZ in uni the unofficial attitude was if you can pass and do well in this course without attending the class then good on you your grade is based on achievement.

In some classes I took you needed a 90% on every assignment to pass. If you could do that on the first try you got an distinction in that class. If you didn't you got a second chance on the assignments/tests and if you got that 90% you got a pass. There was no way you could get extra credit to get a distinction. You were either at that level or you weren't. You didn't get grades for improvement only achievement. Oh and don't think having the option of a second try made the class any easier. In fact you got one last third try on a test/assignment at the deans discretion in not then fail for you. They knew there was a tendency for people to feel that they are smart and can cruise through classes so they up the ante.

Bottom line you should come out of college with significantly more knowledge than when you started not with a pretty transcript with stars and a hefty bill

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

i do not agree with all of this at all. i have two bachelor's degrees. one i majored in psychology, gpa 3.6, did a great deal of writing, minored in philosophy (taught me to argue and make my point quickly, lol.) however, when it came to obtaining my bsn it was some of the hardest work load i've ever done. i was constantly studying had many, many papers, well over 20 pages! had a's and b's and earned everyone of them, trust me. i studied my butt off, because first of all i knew that this stuff i needed to remember for life. nursing has to still be one of the toughest subjects out there. this is just my two cents of course but i disagree with what is being said here, sorry.

then you didn't actually read the entire article or the end of my original post where i clearly stated the article mentioned that the sciences including social sciences, so that covers both nursing and psychology was the exception to rule.

so we are not exactly talking about nursing school not being demanding since there are thousands of threads on an that point out that this is not so. it's a discussion on the state of tertiary education. maybe nursing school would'n be so hard in comparison if the standards were raised.

[color=#111111]in general, traditional arts and science fields (math, science, humanities and the social sciences) tended to be more demanding, and students who majored in those subjects studied more and showed higher gains[color=#656565]