CNAs writing up nurses??

[cuppa_tea]

We have some pretty amazing CNAs and then we have some vindictive little....well, you know what I'm saying there. These handful of CNAs are indeed very good at their job, but are so incredibly arrogant and manipulative. They chase off new CNAs, they are disrespectful to the nurses (their supervisors) and have even sabotaged a few fellow colleagues and those nurses nearly lost their jobs. NOT nice women, these malcontent CNAs. They announce loudly that they too can write people up (nurses) and I've never heard of such a thing. Is this true? Immature, condescending know-it-alls can write up nurses? Are you kidding me? I can't find evidence of this nonsense anywhere. Has anyone heard about this or are they just blowing smoke up our scrubs? I used to value our CNAs, but these childish drama queens are getting right up my nose. Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

Of course they can.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

I guess I just wanted to know how much weight these claims carry or if they are even disciplinary in nature.

What does your management do with the claims?

[Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN]

They are trying to scare you. It only works if you actually get scared.

It's like when patients, not liking the unit rules, threaten lawsuits (response: deadpan expression and "that's your legal right if you choose to do so") or that they'll complain to the patient advocate (response: deadpan expression and "OK, here's the grievance form. I'll get it to the charge nurse after you turn it in").

They realize fast that threats don't faze us and won't change the rules. And almost all the time, the lawsuit never materializes or the grievance form is never turned in.

[cuppa_tea]

Hmmm. I didn't thnk about that---misdirection. Interesting.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

Sadly, I am their supervisor and I am to do write ups if necessary. Can I fire? Nope. Can I walk them to the time clock and off the premises? Yup. Beyond that unwanted authority, I have never heard of a nurse's assistant writing up a nurse, their supervisor. A write up being a disciplinary action, I mean.

When you say a write up are you talking about like an "incident report" type of thing where they write up what happened and it goes on to management to review and decide if it's founded or not. Or are you saying they can do an actual official write up that is placed in an employee file?

Because if we are talking about like an incident report, then yes anyone can "Write up" anyone. housekeeping can write up a doctor and file an incident report. Then it go to whoever oversees that person and they decide if it is warranted and if it deserves a verbal warning or maybe a written warning "write up" to be placed in an employee file.

If we are talking about the CNA or any staff can just do an official write up to be part of the employee file and disciplinary record, then No I have never heard of that and I don't think that should be allowed for many reasons.

[KarenMS]

No staff should be maliciously and repeatedly writing up other staff, nothing to do with job title.

[cuppa_tea]

Correct. I am talking about a disciplinary action where it goes into your record; a black mark on your file, if you will. I am not talking about incident reports. Of course everyone under the sun can file claims against just about anyone. I'm not questioning that. I'm talking about actual demerits. I don't know what others call that kind of discipline. I'm talking about this: a verbal warning, first written notice, second written notice, third written notice or termination. I guess I'm not expressing myself very clearly. At any rate, our hand full of CNA problem children are hell-bent on writing up their supervisor if anyone DARES to tell them what to do or reprimand them (properly and privately) or if they perceive any kind of insult. It's ridiculous and it makes for a very toxic work environment. The nurses on the floor don't dare to ask them to do bed check...omg....the backlash is immediate and we pay for it for weeks. Sighs.

It's apparent that no one has heard of such a beast, so I'm to assume our mean girls (CNAs) are just being silly and don't understand what their actual authority is: to report an incident of abuse, or other violation, not actual punishment. I think I need a new job. High school is over and bullying makes me angry. Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I hope none of you are being bullied or threatened. It makes me not enjoy a role I love. I just want to take care of my patients. I don't want this other BS.

[Orca, ADN, ASN, RN]

Problems like these are rampant in long term care facilities in particular, because only the CNAs stay because nurses move on for better situations. They become favorites of the ownership and upper management, and what they say is accepted as gospel. A friend who was briefly DON at a LTC center was let go after reporting to management that she had seen CNAs take things out of the supply room and load them into their cars. You just didn't criticize the CNAs there.

[KarenMS]

It doesn't seem like ANY staff, not just CNAs, should be able to just leave black marks in an employee's file. It should always come from someone in a supervisory or managerial position. The problem you have isn't CNAs against nurses, it's the way it seems "punishments" are allowed to be doled out.

[Nurse SMS, MSN, RN]

Do the CNAs have access to employee files? If not, then I would say no, they cannot write people up. How would it get into their file otherwise?

[mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN]

I don't think they need to get into a file to write them up, they would have to turn it into the manager or HR and then they would make that decision.

We do have one CNA that is CONSTANTLY tattling on everyone. I am sure my manager cringes everytime she sees an email from this person. We have a lot of tail wagging the dog where I am. It has gotten much, much better recently, but it can be frustrating. As a nurse, it is within my scope to do my tasks AND all of theirs, and I will if I need to, but they don't always seem to understand that while I can take my patients to the bathroom, they cannot medicate them for me. I get pulled in 2 directions many times trying to keep everyone safe and happy.