the cnas have taken over!!

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Help, I'm in a situation that I really don't know what to do. I'm a new lpn, about a year and a half. I consider myself a very good nurse and very professional and very fair. However, the facility I am currently employed has a real problem.You see, the cna's think they run the floor, and no one is doing a thing about it. They have blatantly told me that these were "their residents, and they can take care of them better than I can" I have complained to the don and nothing is done about it. The other two nurses that work the floor with me have been there for years, as have most of the aids, and they have been allowed to behave like this. The other 3-ll nurses have complained also but nothing is every done. The don, I'M told is afraid of getting involved because the aids belong the a union and the nurses don't. The aids are constantly involving themselves in nursing conversations I'm having regarding care. They easedrop on conversations with nurses and doctors and family members. I think they even go through charts when no one is around. I was even told by our infection control nurse to be careful, that the aids will "report" you in a second, just to see a nurse in trouble or get fired. I was even told that the cnas had to sign off on bolus feedings, just to prove that the residents were getting their feedings. I put my foot down with that one and was called to the don's office. I now have a fellow nurse sign for them. I have never been in a facility where the cna's were so empowered. It's really scary. I'm really thinking of going into home care. Have already contacted an agency. Would appreciate some feedback with this one, Thankss.

oh, and mattsmom81, you quoted me as saying: "NONEXISTANT" HIPAA policy"

reread my post on page 7...I said "nonexistant HIPAA POLICE"...I was referring to the fact that HIPAA undercover police won't be hiding behind the chart rack waiting for a CNA to pick up a chart

get it right

you even quoted my post, to which you could have referred whilst typing your post...

Specializes in ICU.

The original post was about a type of workplace bullying called mobbing. Whether this is done by CNA's to LPN/LVN/RN or RN to RN or even MD to MD the problem is the same. It should not be tolerated and has been perpetuated in our profession for far too long.

We must ask ourselves why this has persisted and this thread is a good example of why. Instead of recognising an unhealthy workplace environment and acting to correct the problme we have devolved into heated discussion over role and practice parameters.

In each state and country these parameters will be different. They are even significantly different from facility to facility unit to unit. The question is not who should or should not do something but:-

How do we maximise smooth delivery of optimal patient care while maintaining maximal patient privacy?

Let us share the positives or negatives of our own workplaces in this regard and divide the issues.

The first issue is how to deliver optimal patient care

The second issue is how to stamp out mobbing and bullying in the workplace

This is something that is NEVER going to be solved.... You will always have RNs who think they rule the world.. You will always have CNAs who think they rule the world... Its a never ending cycle. But I do understand why some CNAs get such a chip on their shoulder... If I was looked at as a buttwiper and bed bath person only.. It would make me bitter too...

I think alot of nurses don't realize what a value the CNAs are. While they nurse is charting, the CNA is making rounds to the patients and usually ends up conveying ALOT of information to the nurses.. Like Mrs. X in Room 34 pulse is 160. Would the nurse have known that otherwise. Maybe not...

I hope I remember once I graduate to appreciate my CNA and treat them as one of the TEAM. The nurses I work with are GREAT!! BUT they don't give us report, so I depend on the Kardexes and charts for MOST if not ALL of my information. I check the Kardex first.. Those 99% of the time are NOT updated like they should be, so I then must go to the chart to verify it. I guess its the student nurse in me. But whatever.. I need the charts to do my job correctly. Heck, I chart vitals in the chart, I chart I&Os in the chart.

And the thing about not letting the CNAs behind the desk.. That is just crazy and rude. But whatever...

Originally posted by gwenith

The original post was about a type of workplace bullying called mobbing. Whether this is done by CNA's to LPN/LVN/RN or RN to RN or even MD to MD the problem is the same. It should not be tolerated and has been perpetuated in our profession for far too long.

We must ask ourselves why this has persisted and this thread is a good example of why. Instead of recognising an unhealthy workplace environment and acting to correct the problme we have devolved into heated discussion over role and practice parameters.

In each state and country these parameters will be different. They are even significantly different from facility to facility unit to unit. The question is not who should or should not do something but:-

How do we maximise smooth delivery of optimal patient care while maintaining maximal patient privacy?

Let us share the positives or negatives of our own workplaces in this regard and divide the issues.

The first issue is how to deliver optimal patient care

The second issue is how to stamp out mobbing and bullying in the workplace

Great post, gwenith.

The originator of this thread is having a serious problem at work. She deserves our support. All this arguing and defensivness has totally gotten away from her topic.

Specializes in Everything except surgery.

Ditto gwenith!

agreed, bullying sucks in the LTC facility, in the hospital, in McDonalds, etc...we all get that...

But let us NEVER gloss over throwing one's education in another's face, or on the flipside, holding a lack of education against someone...This mirrors the RN/LPN argument...

Word up to any LPNs not allowing a CNA to look in the chart...How do you feel when some arrogant RN treats you like sh*t????

And to any CNAs that boss around dietary, you are part of the problem too...

Yes this thread morphed into something other than the original post...It's called momentum of an idea...It's not bad, it's not good, it's just what happens when intelligent people discuss a heated topic...

Don't chastise us for thinking outside of the topic...It's all topic related...

and please don't hide under the umbrella of: "In each state and country these parameters will be different." Gwenith...

CNA bashing rings true in each of the 50 states and various countries (whether they are called orderlies, aides, PCTs, techs, or whatever)...This thread helped everyone's TRUE colors shine through, irrespective of place of origin...

The true feeling I get from this thread: We have a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go people...

Specializes in Everything except surgery.

Dude get a grip please!

I find it interesting that nurses thinking that a CNA should not look at pt charts got so much reaction, but the post about a CNA slashing the tires of a nurse who would not be a doormat got no comments at all.

Specializes in ICU.

My point is that we are so busy concentrating on the perceptions of how different "levels" of nurses are treated that we are missing the main point. The main point is about bullying in the workplace. Firing vilifications at others is not going to solve that issue.

Perhaps though, aknowledging that some bullying comes from a percieved threat to self esteem will help us to identify why the different personnel are treated poorly. I do think how employees treat each other is part of workplace culture. We should try to make all workers feel important and valued - whether they be the garbage collector or the Director of Nursing but this stems first from a policy of zero tolerance to workplace violence and bullying.

Originally posted by beaglemom

I have never been in a facility where the cna's were so empowered. It's really scary.

I worked with "empowered" CNA's for many years and I agree with the post that stated the DON created this enviroment. When the DON is "afraid" of her staff it is a recipe for disaster and scary for the nurses trying to run a unit. They could disappear for hours and get a slap on the wrist, they could punch each other in and out and get paid when they werent even there !! One CNA was forging a nurses initials on her time card and if I was in charge she would have been out the door, nah she just got scolded like the rest. They broke into the "files" and then ranted about the salaries of me and the eve NM !!!!!

They kept a watch on the nurses, waiting for a tx not to be done or see or hear something that they could hang over the nurses head. When the DON feeds this fire it will soon race out of control and the good staff WILL go- I did.....

............and you will be left with the brainless, lazy, uneducated, backstabbing staff who couldnt care less about the reason why they are there in the first place the RESIDENTS. The nurses who stay have the same attitude and mentality- cant beat'em join 'em

Loud-mouthed arrogant "know-it-all" cna's were one of my deciding factors to leave LTC for good. For 8 yrs I dealt with them and their petty BS issues while the residents suffered. There was always a rant about some nonsense and they were always threatening to call the news stations !!! Their mentality led them to beleive that the news stations really would care if you didnt get paid for last thurs when you called in HAH !!!!!

I had one CNA threaten to "report" me for taking O2 off a deceased resident and argued with me in the hallway in front of the family about how I didnt have an MD order to remove the O2. Not sure who she was going to report me to maybe GOD !!??

One CNA made a habit of getting chummy with the families and "visited" outside the facility, This one was real good at bad mouthing the staff and manipulating the family to like or dislike a staff member- depending WHO their target was that day. It was unbeleivable when I now had this angry family in my face, talking nonsense just like the staff !!!!!

I am a firm beleiver that a good CNA is worth their wgt in gold and they certainly are the backbone, eyes, and ears of the unit BUT when they take over and attempt to intimidate and control the licensed staff this is where I get OUT. I do beleive in teamwork and appreciate it when its there but you cannot have it when most of your staff is on a mission to destroy.

They were an evil bunch and seemed to live to hurt others. Nevermind the time and energy this takes and nevermind the fact that there are poor old souls who need there assistance. If they have such a chip on their shoulder and want to be "me" then go to school, pass exams, graduate, sit for the boards and pass that exam- then you can be a nurse too. What is stopping you ? maybe if you put the time and energy into schooling and education VS attempting to intimidate and destroy people you might graduate at the top of your class.

I sent a CNA home who backtalked me and refused to do what I asked (change some pages around in acct books) when DON came in she called her and asked her to came back in !!! I told her I would leave and she let CNA stay home and never gave her the write-up I prepared. Another slap on the wrist. This was the beginning of the end.................

My eyes were finally opened and I saw that nothing would change and I couldnt hang around in this upside down and backward world where nothing was what it seemed to be. Guess I could have stayed as I was offered ADON position when I resigned (talk about a bizzaro world ) Thought I could take out all my revenge as ADON and FIRE them all BUT I just couldnt- it was easier to leave and not look back.

During my last three weeks I became the target, the DON sent her no-good-doers out to get me !!! They tried so hard to hurt me and I held my head up high and remained a professional as I knew there was a light at the end of this tunnel- my new med/surg unit !! On x-mas eve a week after I left I received a hand written hate letter to my house, on facility stationary with a facility postage stamper. They couldnt leave well enough alone and because they couldnt hurt me while I was there they decided to send me a hateful letter, which DID hurt . MISSION accomplished !! Well I am on a mission now !!! I will "steal" the few good staff members to work at the hospital with me, Ill save them from the torture and help them escape from that HOSTILE enviroment- my revenge ???

And yes I have a bitterness about the whole LTC scene-sorry for the rant/vent :imbar

deb

Specializes in Everything except surgery.

OMG deb!! And I thought I had heard it all, but a hate letter??? On facility paper and stamp!!! I would've sued their behinds off! I tell you, you're a better person than me! I would have done more than take their good staff, and their good money too!

Specializes in ICU.

Deb sorry for your horrible experience (((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))) What you went through is another example of mobbing and a particularly nasty one at that. It is difficult to cope with that sort of thing and you are right to get out as otherwise it can escalate. It did here in Australia with an RN being charged for multiple murder despite the fact that the only "evidence" was a couple of Enrolled nurses who stated that they thought they saw her using a larger than normal syringe!!!

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