CNA's passing meds in ALF. What's your opinion?

Specialties Geriatric

Published

I have a big problem. I have been observing CNA techs passing meds in ALF's this year with huge med errors. Like not knowing the doses, side effects, checking with Doctor's for old orders.meds not in the drawers and pts. not get their meds for 10 days.What about a pt getting 17 PO meds at 8am!!!! Not one single nurse in the ALFs.

We as nurses go years to school to learn meds and general nursing tasks.

What is your opinion on this?

Thanks.

Specializes in Trauma,ER,CCU/OHU/Nsg Ed/Nsg Research.

Can you take doctor's orders in WI without a license?

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

I wouldn't want the responsibility of being unlicensed and taking dr.'s orders!

First thing you should do is to find out if it is legal and what government authority approved it and go from there. If it's not legal then I would make it public.

Where do you all live, that you have actual certified people passing meds in assisted living facilities? Here in Oregon, the medication assistant doesn't have to have ANY formal education at all, just a few days training and then she's on her own passing meds to as many as 50 or more residents.

I was the DON for three such facilities at one point, and what frightened me most of all was that the administrators would hire people, literally off the streets sometimes, and expect their established med aides to train them in two or three days, max. Then *I* was supposed to be responsible for them....well, I was truly fearful for my license. Although I did have some good med aides, the vast majority were well-meaning but poorly educated people who were basically in it for the $8.50 an hour the position paid, and some of them couldn't even read the names of the medications, let alone know what they were for.

Kudos to you CNAs who at least know enough to be uncomfortable with giving medications! Perhaps if more of you speak out, ALFs will have to change their requirements for med aides without having residents be harmed, or even killed, because of errors that probably would not occur if a credentialed, trained person were passing meds!!

Worked a retirement home (assisted living) non licensed, uncertified personell, totally non-medicals were passing meds -- "over seen by an RN" she merely checked the meds sheets every couple of days. It was frightening to see how some of the folks got PRN meds routinely -- numerous meds at a time -- 2-3 stool softeners, double pain medications, BP meds without monitoring BPs, Lanoxin w/o checking pulse rates ------ SCAREY stuff.

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

As an RN or an LPN, i'd refuse to oversee that. If a med error happens, whose *** will be in the frying pan?

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come on now! did you write up medication errors or have the med aide to do so?

i was a med aide before i become a l.p.n. i enjoyed passing medication, but i did it all: injections caths everything, i even charged the building!

as a l.p.n., yes med aides scare me! i am so afraid of "their" mistakes. i never thought about the mishaps until i went to work at a long term place and had to endure countless hours of writing up med errors due to incompetent med aides.

be careful. your writes up could save your job and license.

:o

the problem is with the state regulations that allow unlicensed people to adminster meds in assisted living facilities. until the state regulations require that only an lvn or rn can pass medications the problems will continue. :uhoh21:

i have a big problem. i have been observing cna techs passing meds in alf's this year with huge med errors. like not knowing the doses, side effects, checking with doctor's for old orders.meds not in the drawers and pts. not get their meds for 10 days.what about a pt getting 17 po meds at 8am!!!! not one single nurse in the alfs.

we as nurses go years to school to learn meds and general nursing tasks.

what is your opinion on this?

thanks.

the problem is with the state regulations that allow unlicensed people to adminster meds in assisted living facilities. until the state regulations require that only an lvn or rn can pass medications the problems will continue. :uhoh21:
oh yes i do agree. if the states wants cma's, then, i think the cma's need to take at least a 6 month course on medication and everything that goes along with this. like i said i was a cma i know we were not taught everything. the title was very difficult to accomplish. i did learn from the drug books. this is how i learned. not from the class. that was a joke. it was not even a class.

i do agree. but, with the so called nurse shortage how can the nurses fulfill that obligation?

:rolleyes:

As a nurse I think CNA med techs are a bad idea. I worked in an ALF for a very brief time and left because I was not comfortable being responsible for someone passing out meds that only had an 8 hour training course. Some of the med techs were very competent but it seemed like they were the minority. Hopefully someone somewhere will wake up and realize that its not an effective solution before someone dies after a med error. Maybe when the lawyers show up they'll figure it out.

As a nurse I think CNA med techs are a bad idea. I worked in an ALF for a very brief time and left because I was not comfortable being responsible for someone passing out meds that only had an 8 hour training course. Some of the med techs were very competent but it seemed like they were the minority. Hopefully someone somewhere will wake up and realize that its not an effective solution before someone dies after a med error. Maybe when the lawyers show up they'll figure it out.

You know, I still kind of doubt it. Med Aides are Cheaper than hiring Liecensed personal. Kind of like working with a skelten shift. The health care agencies does only what they must do. There was a long term home I know of that tried using L.P.N.'s to pass medication. C.M.A.s were put on the floor for CNA work. The L.P.N.'s complained that they were not to pass medication! OKAY! What were they trained for? Letting L.P.N.'s pass medication is a great asset to any place and would possible cut down on Malpractice Lawsuits, in return possibly lower !:coollook:

Specializes in ER, PACU.
i work at an assisted living facility in WI im not even a cna and all i had to do was take a medication training course(course was 8 hours) and i pass meds. we have narcotics(although the residents dont ever take them) that we have to count at the end of EVERY night. i havent had a problem with it. we dont pass out that many meds really, but i am very careful with what i do.i learned alot in that class about side effects, dosages, dr. orders and the such. ive had to do telephone doctor orders before to discontinue a med and whatnot. i admit its alot of work, making sure everyone gets there med on time, keeping a close eye out for possible side effects and calling the doctor when there is a problem but i love the work i do and i would do anything to make these residents' lifes' better,which is why i feel comfortable passing meds because i have confidence in what i know and have learned.

This is scary stuff..Physically passing pills is not that hard..We could train a chimp to do it. The hard part is knowing the action of the med, what it is used for, contraindications, and side effects. I am sorry, but I dont believe that a med tech can accurately detect most potential side effects, unless they are blateltly obvious, because they are not trained to ASSESS the patient like LPN's or RN's do.

These questions are directed towards all med techs, not just this particular one. Do you as a med tech know when to hold a b/p med? Do you even know which of this patients 10 meds are for b/p?? Have you checked this patients chart to see if they have a recent PT/INR before you give this patient thier coumadin? (We used to do it monthly). Go ahead, give that coumadin to the patient with an INR of 10. Patient is allergic to penicillin..but its ok because we are giving zosyn, thats not penicillin, and the doctor ordered it so you'll give it.

I could go on forever... :angryfire :angryfire

You seem to forget that med techs work directly under an RN or LPN. They are not out there doing their own stuff.

This is scary stuff..Physically passing pills is not that hard..We could train a chimp to do it. The hard part is knowing the action of the med, what it is used for, contraindications, and side effects. I am sorry, but I dont believe that a med tech can accurately detect most potential side effects, unless they are blateltly obvious, because they are not trained to ASSESS the patient like LPN's or RN's do.

These questions are directed towards all med techs, not just this particular one. Do you as a med tech know when to hold a b/p med? Do you even know which of this patients 10 meds are for b/p?? Have you checked this patients chart to see if they have a recent PT/INR before you give this patient thier coumadin? (We used to do it monthly). Go ahead, give that coumadin to the patient with an INR of 10. Patient is allergic to penicillin..but its ok because we are giving zosyn, thats not penicillin, and the doctor ordered it so you'll give it.

I could go on forever... :angryfire :angryfire

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