CNA 11 Years need your help

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Hello all of you courageous frontliners, I need to ask you guys a question. I was recently fired for violating company policy. My question is does anyone know if it's against any policy that you know of that you can't follow a patient to another facility, visit and run errands for them. Being that they are no longer in your facility.

This is true for RNs, LPNs, and CNAs, you will have patients/family who will ?praise? you in your face, but once you leave they will tell the next person who comes in you were the ?worst person? they had.

2 Votes
15 hours ago, DesiDani said:

Another thing is that as a CNA you are working under the license of someone else. Say you visit, not as a "family/friend" but as a CNA that works under the license of your employer. If he falls or gets hurt while you are helping him, whose is responsible? The place that he is at or the place you are working at?

This is not correct regarding this scenario. I know a lot of us have heard or been lead to believe that the employer would have some legal liability for a scenario such as the OP, but oftentimes these claims of liability are used more as an excuse for the employer's stance on something or are conveyed in overly-broad terms (again for the employer's own purposes/benefit).

The activity described in the OP was not done in the course of employment and was strictly the OP's private activity. It could be argued that it wasn't even specifically CNA activity; you don't need a CNA certificate to check on/visit someone and do their shopping. Employers are generally not liable for the individual actions and choices of employees not on the clock who are not engaged in anything having to do with their status as an employee of that employer. The OP most definitely was not doing any CNA work under the license of his/her employer (or anyone else) with regard to the scenario presented.

6 Votes
54 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

This is not correct regarding this scenario. I know a lot of us have heard or been lead to believe that the employer would have some legal liability for a scenario such as the OP, but oftentimes these claims of liability are used more as an excuse for the employer's stance on something or are conveyed in overly-broad terms (again for the employer's own purposes/benefit).

The activity described in the OP was not done in the course of employment and was strictly the OP's private activity. It could be argued that it wasn't even specifically CNA activity; you don't need a CNA certificate to check on/visit someone and do their shopping. Employers are generally not liable for the individual actions and choices of employees not on the clock who are not engaged in anything having to do with their status as an employee of that employer. The OP most definitely was not doing any CNA work under the license of his/her employer (or anyone else) with regard to the scenario presented.

I get it, but why was the OP terminated then, If her employers wasn't liable for her. If they are not liable if she held to his debit card and if she was going in to help a prior patient at another facility, How can many others mention "boundaries" if her employer is not liable or could be held liable? Even if you are off the clock, you are still representing your job, especially in the era of social media.

Also I argue the OP was doing work under her license since the OP initially agreed to hold on the card while she was working. It was just a continuation of that agreement.

Any old way, what is done is done. Everything is a learning experience. It is good that the OP didn't get a violation slapped on her CNA license.

0 Votes
20 minutes ago, DesiDani said:

I get it, but why was the OP terminated then, If her employers wasn't liable for her.

Because they didn't like the appearance of what she did, given the fact that she is still employed by them. That doesn't mean her actions in this case had anything to do with them. Haven't you heard of anyone getting canned for something completely unrelated to their work? It's related to the employer's concern about their image, not related to their in-fact liability.

20 minutes ago, DesiDani said:

How can many others mention "boundaries" if her employer is not liable or could be held liable?

Ethical boundaries, run-of-the-mill bad ideas, and legal liability are all completely different (distinct) things. This situation was 1) a bad idea 2) maybe ethically questionable 3) not illegal whatsoever on the face of it, unless the OP did something illegal with the card or was otherwise abusing the individual in some way.

20 minutes ago, DesiDani said:

Even if you are off the clock, you are still representing your job, especially in the era of social media.

"Representing" refers to appearances and public reputation. Not legal liability.

20 minutes ago, DesiDani said:

Also I argue the OP was doing work under her license since the OP initially agreed to hold on the card while she was working. It was just a continuation of that agreement.

I didn't see that anywhere. OP wrote that the patient hadn't been at the OP's employer's facility for "months"...and that she was holding the card "until the next month..." which would seem to indicate that she began visiting the patient sometime after he left the facility months ago, and recently he had given her the card to hold til next month.

21 hours ago, L.P.CNA said:

The patient was no longer a resident at the facility for months.

19 hours ago, L.P.CNA said:

Actually the mother of the patient called the job and told them that she wanted a debit card of his that he had given me to hold for him until the next month...

Sounds like the mother called the OP's work not because the employer had anything to do with this but because she knew the OP still continued to be employed there.

There's no question the employer didn't like the appearance of the OP's activity and feel that it reflected upon them (reputation-wise) since the OP is still employed by them completely separately from this other activity. Also, (sorry OP), the thing with agreeing to hold onto the card was a very bad judgment call, and perhaps the employer simply doesn't wish to employ someone demonstrating this type of poor judgment.

However, we haven't heard anything to indicate legal liability related to the OP scenario. We haven't even heard that anything illegal has happened at all.

5 Votes
Specializes in CNA.

I did nothing with the card but hold onto it, no funds were on the card. I most definitely didn't do anything illegal, that's not the type of person I am nor am I a predator who looks for easy targets. I truly care and have deep feelings and compassion for everyone I come in contact with. My character have never been questioned. I made a bad judgment call but really didn't think that I was doing anything wrong or I wouldn't have done it. I've been a CNA for 11 years and I've never heard anything about this kind of thing. I was off duty, on my own time, he had not been at the facility for months and I went to visit him as a friend that was concerned about his well being. Never ever had I asked for a dime to do anything for him.

0 Votes
Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.
2 hours ago, JKL33 said:

This is not correct regarding this scenario. I know a lot of us have heard or been lead to believe that the employer would have some legal liability for a scenario such as the OP, but oftentimes these claims of liability are used more as an excuse for the employer's stance on something or are conveyed in overly-broad terms (again for the employer's own purposes/benefit).

The activity described in the OP was not done in the course of employment and was strictly the OP's private activity. It could be argued that it wasn't even specifically CNA activity; you don't need a CNA certificate to check on/visit someone and do their shopping. Employers are generally not liable for the individual actions and choices of employees not on the clock who are not engaged in anything having to do with their status as an employee of that employer. The OP most definitely was not doing any CNA work under the license of his/her employer (or anyone else) with regard to the scenario presented.

I witnessed a case when I was covering SNFs. The patient had independent income and was an avid collector. As it happens in SNFs, patient grew closer with some staff members and gave them his card to buy things for him, including expensive collectables, sometimes staff members were driving to local antiques fairs and stores when off work to get them. Everybody saw it as a harmless folly of an elderly gentleman. When family found it out, they sued the facility and tried to prove that the Psychiatry provider tried to drug the patient out of his mind and facility was paving his way by allowing staff access to money at the time when patient was "under influence" of meds in order to keep those collectibles. That was laughable by itself, but during the discovery phase they found multiple little inconsistencies in assessments and psychotropic meds prescriptions and administration, so it was not possible to prove that nothing evil and malignant at all was really going on.The lawsuit was settled out of Court somehow but there was mass termination of everyone involved and Psychiatry office (with excellent physician) losing privileges in that SNF. As far I understand, it was just a little slap on the finger and only the Lord knows what would happen if family had got a stronger legal team.

3 Votes
1 minute ago, KatieMI said:

I witnessed a case almost exactly as the OP described when I was covering SNFs. The patient had independent income. As it happens in SNFs, patient grew closer with some staff members and gave them his card to buy things for him, including expensive collectables. Everybody saw it as a harmless folly of an elderly gentleman who just loved to have his stuff around. When family found it out, they sued the facility and tried to prove that the Psychiatry provider tried to drug the patient out of his mind and facility was paving his way by allowing staff access to money at the time when patient was "under influence" of meds in order to keep those collectibles. That was laughable by itself, but during the discovery phase they found multiple little inconsistencies in assessments and psychotropic meds prescriptions and administration, so it was not possible to prove that nothing evil and malignant at all was really going on.The lawsuit was settled out of Court somehow but there was mass termination of everyone involved and Psychiatry office (with excellent physician) losing privileges in that SNF. As far I understand, it was just a little slap on the finger and only the Lord knows what would happen if family had got a stronger legal team.

Not surprised at all and really, the facility employees gave the family plenty of incentive to sue. This is basically what the OP's former employer is trying to avoid by terminating her. Pure and simple.

3 Votes

Agree, Katie. I think if this gentleman were a resident of the OP's workplace then the legal situation (liability) of the OP's employer would be different.

1 Votes
24 minutes ago, L.P.CNA said:

I did nothing with the card but hold onto it, no funds were on the card. I most definitely didn't do anything illegal, that's not the type of person I am nor am I a predator who looks for easy targets. I truly care and have deep feelings and compassion for everyone I come in contact with. My character have never been questioned. I made a bad judgment call but really didn't think that I was doing anything wrong or I wouldn't have done it. I've been a CNA for 11 years and I've never heard anything about this kind of thing. I was off duty, on my own time, he had not been at the facility for months and I went to visit him as a friend that was concerned about his well being. Never ever had I asked for a dime to do anything for him.

FWIW I believe you.

There are still people out there who get themselves into trouble out of pure innocence/ignorance. I am sorry this has happened to you.

In general, if your only connection to a person is through work (you cared for them as a patient/resident), then it's wise to just keep things that way. If/when they are no longer a resident or patient of the facility in which you work, then your relationship with them has ended.

On the positive side, if you enjoy caring for others on your own time, there are a lot of places where you can volunteer to help provide services to those in need. Also, you may have neighbors or other acquaintances who need help but were never patients/residents who received services from your employer (or whom you were paid to care for). Look around you and I'm sure you will find many ways to help others on a volunteer basis. [Even then, you will want to use what you have learned about good boundaries to protect them and you] ?

Take care ~

6 Votes
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
On 5/11/2020 at 5:26 PM, L.P.CNA said:

Thank you Sour Lemon for taking the time to reply to my post. It's much appreciated. The answer to your question how did my employer find out. Actually the mother of the patient called the job and told them that she wanted a debit card of his that he had given me to hold for him until the next month, which his funds would be distributed on the card and he would ask me to go shopping for him.

Ooookay. I'm thinking you might have been just reprimanded for violating professional boundaries if it hadn't involved a debit card and if your employer even managed to find out. But the minute money is involved, that becomes a whole other issue.

So this patient was young enough to have a mother involved, yet gave you his debit card "to hold". This opens you up to accusations of patient exploitation (no matter how noble your intentions actually were) and your facility to fines and lawsuits.

1. Sever ties with this person. 2. Secure new employment. 3. Make friends who are not patients in your workplace. Good luck.

2 Votes
Specializes in CNA.

Thank you TriciaJ, but the patient is not young he's over 50 years old. He's in his right state of mind with no dementia or anything. He told his mom that I had the card and she took it upon herself to call and ask for the card. He didn't know that she had done that until I told him.

0 Votes

I'll bet a dime to a dollar the mom made that call for the intended effect as well as her stated reason. People can't be that naive to the ways of the world. Same thing as when debt collectors call a person's place of employment until the employee wises up and tells them to stop.

4 Votes
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