CEO's/Hosp.'s making millions off of our work:(

[sassyspot]

I've been a nurse for many years and have been through many nursing shortages (that's right history does indeed repeat itself over and over again). The one thing that all of these nursing shortages have in common is the fact that not once has the shortage resulted in bringing nurses together to form collective bargaining units to increase their wages. Each time this has happened the hospital organizations and thier investors and Ceo's have come out filthy rich. The nurses on the otherr hancdo not even see a decent increase in pay. This is sad, since these hospitals co function uld not without us! Maybe it's time for nurses to come to grips with their self esteem issues and seek help for professional organizing. These hospital Corp. do not care one bit to put you in a position of overwork, underpay and just sheer exhaustion- to the point that you become dangerous and then abandon you when you make a mistake. Theses organizations do not care who you are or what you do, as long as you are a warm body generating revenue for them. How many nurses have you heard of that make million dollar salaries for doing the work that we do? Maybe it's time for Nurse/Healthcare worker owned and operated facilities! Removing the greedy CEO's and boards of director would absolutely change the direction of our profession and institutions. After all these Corp. are Never to bi to fail and they couldn't even operate if we as a group would stick together. Our profession has tried all other options, why not try collective/group bargaining?:)

[LoyalWeim]

seasoned_traveler,

Yeah, that is terrible. According to the cost-of-living calculator, the difference from CA to OH is more like 25% than 50% so yeah that would be quite a pay-cut. I am sure there are other variables in terms of what nurses actually are paid when it comes down to it.

TheCommuter is right about the southern states like TX. I took a TX Government class and it is well known that the culture in TX is very much anti-union. I must be honest that I personally have never felt the need to unionize. Perhaps if I am given the opportunity to actually be a nurse somewhere, I may change my mind. Frankly I can see both sides of the equation. Theoretically, institutions or companies that do not treat their employees fairly would not be competitive due to very high turnover rates. As a case-in-point, consider SouthWest Airlines. They were they only profitable airline for like... I don't know a decade or more? And they are one of the only ones (maybe the only one?) that are non-union. They have very low turn-over rates which obviously benefits their operations. Maybe hospital's are different- I don't know. Just taking a contrarian view here I guess.... my 2 cents!

Regards,

LW

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

Maybe hospital's are different- I don't know. Just taking a contrarian view here I guess.... my 2 cents!

Hospitals and healthcare facilities are very different. At some healthcare facilities, the employee turnover rates are similar to those seen in the fast food industry (read: workers drop like flies). These facilities tend to be non-union with undesirable workloads and noncompetitive pay.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

TheCommuter,

To make a fair comparison though, shouldn't we take into consideration the cost of living?

NO! Absolutly not! Don't drink the Kool-Aid. Guess what? Medicare pays a hospital the same amount to preform a CABG in Kansas and they do in California. If the hospital in California can pay an RN $45 and hour to recover that CABG in the CVICU then a hospital in Kansas can too. They just choose not to and the nurses telll themselves "well the COL is lower here so I don't mind getting paid less".

[LoyalWeim]

PMFB-RN,

I think you are missing the point. Healthcare costs are only one piece of the COL pie. Surely you are not suggesting that a decent home that costs say 80% more doesn't factor into the COL, right? COL goes way way beyond just the cost of a CABG.

Regards,

LW

[LoyalWeim]

TheCommuter,

So how do these facilities operate profitably and as somebody else stated, safely? Surely there are other hospitals that are run much better than this, right? In theory, one would think the bad ones that mistreat or mismanage their employees would go bankrupt. In addition, the hospitals that pay and run effectively will end up having the best staff with the least turnover... at least in theory. :)

Thanks for the input,

LW

[PMFB-RN, RN]

PMFB-RN,

I think you are missing the point. Healthcare costs are only one piece of the COL pie. Surely you are not suggesting that a decent home that costs say 80% more doesn't factor into the COL, right? COL goes way way beyond just the cost of a CABG.

Regards,

LW

No you are buying into the excuses to pay nurses less than what they should be paid. I am saying the COL is irrelevent and should NOT be taken into account when determining how much a nurse is paid. If a nurse in Central Ca can get paid $45 and hour so can a nurse in Kansas or anywhere else.

I don't even understand what you are talking about when speaking of the CABG and COL. I am saying the hospital brings in pretty much the same money to care for a patient wether the patient is in Ca or Ks. The hospital in Ca can face higher costs AND pay their nurses more. The hospital in Ks can also pay the nurse the same. In fact they should be able to pay them MORE since the hospital will face lower costs in low COL areas.

[LoyalWeim]

For the record, In my opinion the complaints expressed here are more of a macro-level problem. Since our economy crashed in 2008, things have changed for the worse signficantly. I am telling you that almost everyone I know is more unhappy than ever before regardless of the occupation. Nurses are no exception here. Without going into politics (i.e. I know better), let me just say that most of us low to middle class Americans are struggling... big time. Why do you think it is almost an absolute necessity for two parents to work full-time nowadays? Why are food containers shrinking in size while still remaining the same old price (notice how much it costs nowadays for groceries?)? School has increased in cost about 6% per year for over 10 years at least. Why are all these costs going up and yet our wages/compensation remain flat to declining? We are getting slowly squeezed or bled dry... I really wonder what things are going to look like ten years from now...

And like I said, almost everyone I know whether nurse, engineer, police officer, teacher, factory worker, you name it is stressed out and just not happy. So if you are paid well/fairly, absolutely love your job, and just things are overall balanced in your life then you are blessed!

Regards,

LW

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

So how do these facilities operate profitably and as somebody else stated, safely? Surely there are other hospitals that are run much better than this, right?

The high-turnover facilities remain profitable through a combination of low wages, a lack of investment in training and orientation, and sheer volume via constant admissions.

I once worked at a facility that operated like this. All new hires received three days of orientation, including new grads. LVNs were paid $18.50/hourly and RNs were paid $23/hourly regardless of experiential level. The admissions and discharges were constant. Anyhow, this facility has been open for nearly 20 years and still does a high volume of business to this very day.

In theory, one would think the bad ones that mistreat or mismanage their employees would go bankrupt. In addition, the hospitals that pay and run effectively will end up having the best staff with the least turnover... at least in theory.

But now that many cities and states are glutted with an oversupply of nurses, the better hospitals have thousands of employment applications in their computer database, which means that nurses must secure employment at the hellholes or be jobless for an indeterminate amount of time.

[No Stars In My Eyes]

Bodies in / Bodies out. I have seen really terrific nurses get canned simply because of seniority and being at the top of their pay-scale. The facility can dress it up all they want, but the rationale is simply cheaper warm bodies to fill the spots. When the newbies get burned out, so what? Just click into the stack of applications and get your next batch.

[duskyjewel]

Here's the thing: unions need to change their image and behavior. Some of us are opposed to unionization because of real experiences in our own families of people being threatened, having their tires slashed, and getting menacing phone calls at their homes saying their family members were in danger, because they opposed a union in their workplace. This isn't some movie script, all of it actually happened to my own mother. When they try to intimidate people by pushing legislation like card check, that takes away the anonymous ballot (WHY do they need to know how you personally voted?), they look overbearing and thuggish.

So when unions stop acting like that, and when union bosses stop living like Kardashians on the backs of the workers they say they're advocating for, and diverting workers' money to political causes and candidates they would never support, maybe people like me might start feeling a bit more positive about them.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Here's the thing: unions need to change their image and behavior. Some of us are opposed to unionization because of real experiences in our own families of people being threatened, having their tires slashed, and getting menacing phone calls at their homes saying their family members were in danger, because they opposed a union in their workplace. This isn't some movie script, all of it actually happened to my own mother. When they try to intimidate people by pushing legislation like card check, that takes away the anonymous ballot (WHY do they need to know how you personally voted?), they look overbearing and thuggish.

So when unions stop acting like that, and when union bosses stop living like Kardashians on the backs of the workers they say they're advocating for, and diverting workers' money to political causes and candidates they would never support, maybe people like me might start feeling a bit more positive about them.

I have never experienced anything like that, or known anyone who did. I imagine that such an experience would have a huge effect on a person's perception. My ONLY experience with a union is the union at my current hospital. All of my experience with this union has been positive. It is the union who fights for patient safety and decent treatment of nurses. None of the thing they advocate for are unreasonable Our union fights for better (or any) training for nurses when a new practice or piece of equipment is proposed, our union fights for best practice and best management principals. Our union fights for technology that we don't currently have but that is considered the standard of care in other areas. Here is an example. Currently our PCAs are stand alone units and ETCO2 is ONLY monitored in ICU and on RRT calls. We do not have our PCAs slaved to ETCO2 as is the standard of care and as has been proven to reduce deaths from narcotic OD in the hospital. Our union is fighting for this. Our union also keeps nurses from being fired in secret and without cause. However they simply DO NOT stand up for incompetent or lazy nurses. Nurses can and do get fired from our hospital but every one I have seen fired absolutely should have been fired. What doesn't happen is that very good nurses are not fired simply for being at the top of the pay scale, as happened to me at another job. It is the union that prevents us nurses from having to take unsafe patient loads.

My problem with what you are saying is that in every field there are bad examples. One time (20 years ago) a cop pulled my wife over late at night and groped her breasts and offered to forget the ticket if she serviced him. Now I don't assume that every cop is a sexual predator, but if I wanted I could trot that example out every time the topic of law enforcement comes up. Here is another example. Every single time the subject of single payer heath care (inaccurately described at "socialized medicine" by neo-cons) the example of Canada and or the UK is trotted out as examples of what we don't want here. It's a smoke screen. They deliberately pick out the worst examples and present them as the "normal".

Your family's experience with unions is not the normal, or at least not MY normal.

[lindarn]

And how many nurse unions, have you heard of that act like that?

I have heard of none. Perhaps, 1199?

Then vote in the NNU. Case closed.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Somewhere in the PACNW