CBC article this morning on immigration/nurses

Fiona59 · Jun 13, 2014

Because the CBC is full of morons?

They either love or hate nurses depending on the phase of the moon.

elkpark · Jun 13, 2014

Speaking of people who should know better talking about a nursing "shortage," I Googled something from another thread just now and was directed to a page of the APNA (American Psychiatric Nurses Association) website, FAQ about psychiatric nursing. One of the FAQs was is there demand for psychiatric nurses and the APNA answer was something about how, like all nursing specialties, there is a shortage of and big demand for psychiatric nurses.

Saw it with my own eyes. Just a few minutes ago. Go figure.

aren27 · Jun 13, 2014

Because the CBC is full of morons?
They either love or hate nurses depending on the phase of the moon.

Hahaha, spot on!

Novo · Jun 14, 2014

The key to this problem is demanding higher standards for nurses. Sorry, but a 4 year degree from a country where you finish high school at 15 cannot possibly be deemed as equivalent (we all know that country).

Also, FYI - it's almost impossible to immigrate to Canada as a physician from another country without starting from square one (unless you are at the pinnacle of your specialty), this is how physicians in this country keep themselves from going out of work, they control their numbers through enrollment and the flow of international graduates.

iamnomad · Jun 14, 2014

I believe that higher standards for screening of overseas nurses should be instituted. And jobs should go to locals first. No doubts about that.

But yous can express that without indirectly naming a specific country. I just find it somewhat offending in nature that yous generalise on overseas nurses from a specific country. I believe overseas and Canadian RNs take the same nursing registration exam, right? Which I believe is the ultimate test whether your knowledge of nursing is sufficient for safe delivery of care as an entry-level RN, right?

So in the end, if you passed that test, regardless of your country of origin, yous are gonna have the same RN qualifications, right? So the overseas RNs at your backyard, who you said finished high school at 15 and you deemed not equivalent to your education, have the same (or even greater) nursing knowledge as you are. If that's the case, then maybe Canada needs to step up its education standards coz RNs from a third world country are passing your boards.

I don't want to cause a debate here. I'm just pointing out how we should be sensitive on our posts, especially when Canada employs about 7-9 % of overseas nurses (depending on what statistics you look at). And 32% of that is from the country you deemed not equivalent to your education standards.

Novo · Jun 14, 2014

Only anecdotal evidence I know, but I've observed foreign trained nurses whose spelling and grammer is on par with that of a grade 8 student. I'm then perplexed at how one has managed to write "scholarly papers" throughout their education. Of course, this then impedes on the ability to communicate effectively in writing and, therefore professionalism. We should ALL have to jump through the same hoops in order to write the CRNE.

The CRNE tests only basic nursing competencies and I'd argue that there is more to nursing than a single exam.

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Jun 14, 2014

Sadly, it isn't just the much-maligned IEN who has trouble with English spelling and grammar. I've seen lots of examples of locally-educated-from-day-one nurses with Masters degrees who have poor skills in that area too, because basic English language skills are no longer taught in our schools. My mind just shrieks at how their/they're/there, were/where, its/it's, could-of/should-of/would-of, seen/saw errors and the like appear in people's charting. I don't care if they fill their social media posts with that kind of thing, but professional documentation obliges the proper use of language. Okay, climbing down off my soap box now. :blink:

iamnomad · Jun 14, 2014

Trust me, overseas-educated RNs are not the only ones with spelling and grammar errors. I've worked in the US and currently in Australia, and I know a lot of native English speakers who are really bad in spelling and grammar and a few who occasionally asks me for the correct spelling of certain words.

If yous are seeing these kind of things against overseas-educated RNs, then maybe Canada really needs to step up its standards. Or maybe blame IELTS for giving them RNs a passing score. I don't know about Canada, but Australia requires a much higher IELTS score than the US.

AnonymousLPN · Jun 14, 2014

I did NOT post this article to encourage a debate over the worthiness of IENs. I posted it because I am amazed that the government thinks there is a nursing shortage when this message board is filled with comments relating to the lack of jobs.

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Jun 14, 2014

We did wander a ways off topic. Sorry... Back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

It does boggle the mind that the government sees a shortage of nurses when there really is a shortage of opportunities for nurses. But remember where they're getting their information from: health care employers who want a loophole. I don't have much of a problem with allowing immigration for people with skills and the ability to hit the ground running who fill true shortages. But we know that's not the case with nursing. Many of the IENs who post here (admittedly a convenience sample) have the minimum qualifications to register in Canada but are unable to find employment because they lack that experience that makes a skilled worker. When an employer posts a position they're looking for certain things, and if it comes down to an IEN with no experience or a Canadian-trained nurse with no experience, the obvious choice is the person who's already got ties to Canada. For one thing, there's less paperwork involved. A lot of IENs also don't understand the distinction between obtaining registration and therefore the legal ability to work as a nurse and obtaining employment. In some minds they're the same thing.

The comments that follow the CBC article are quite interesting, especially the one by "JeezCanada". I don't think there would be the need for this program i more Canadians were willing to relocate in order to work. I've done it and I know quite a few others who have done it. curmudgeon44 also raises some good points about international trade deals. Any way you look at this plan, it's bad for average young Canadians who may just find themselves looking for work abroad because they can't get work at home.

yoga&cake · Jun 17, 2014

This is the oddest list....I wonder where the data that "reflect the latest labour market needs"[COLOR=#333333] is gathered from? I am also confused as to whether this means immigrants in those professions will be guaranteed a position once they immigrate or if they will end up in a different occupation, such as a foreign-trained RN working as a care aide.

It seems that a better solution to this apparent shortage would be to open up more seats in Universities and Colleges. Perhaps I am ignorant but I feel that as Nurses we are at least safeguarded by our union - hospitals can't pay foreign-trained RNs a lesser wage for the same position. It is definitely an interesting time to be starting a career!