Can someone tell what these drugs do?

chicagrl72 · Jul 26, 2005

:uhoh3:

I don't think people were being disrespectful, I think they were merely responding in the same manner the OP asked. Posting a general question without letting us know where you're coming from won't get you very far. I'm sure many would be glad to answer the questions this nursing student had asked, had they been asked respectfully also.

:uhoh3: :uhoh3: :uhoh3: :uhoh3: :uhoh3:

for some reason i thought OP was asking about themselves .like it was a person question .............oh ..heck yeah yah.....whichever...

look em up learn from DOING !!!!!!!!

sorry for going up to my ivory tower ... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

heartICU · Jul 26, 2005

Interesting to describe a paralytic as a "muscle relaxant." If I were a member of the lay public I'd like a little more fact and a little less glossing over.

That IS fact, though. I don't think it was glossed over at all. The drugs we use are muscle relaxants, not paralytics. Paralysis tends to refer to the inability to move as a result of nerve damage, as opposed to blockade of neuromuscular transmission.

Jetman · Jul 26, 2005

That IS fact, though. I don't think it was glossed over at all. The drugs we use are muscle relaxants, not paralytics. Paralysis tends to refer to the inability to move as a result of nerve damage, as opposed to blockade of neuromuscular transmission.

Rocuronium is a paralytic, not a muscle relaxant. We use these drugs in the ER for rapid sequence intubation and believe me, they will make the patient stop moving, breathing, etc. Flexeril is considered a muscle relaxant.

apaisRN, RN, CRNA · Jul 26, 2005

I understand paralysis as the inability to move from any cause. I understand "relaxant" as something that relieves tension or spasms, etc.

This is all semantics, we can agree to disagree. I just think that the term "muscle relaxant" implys that voluntary muscle control is retained.

heartICU · Jul 26, 2005

Rocuronium is a paralytic, not a muscle relaxant. We use these drugs in the ER for rapid sequence intubation and believe me, they will make the patient stop moving, breathing, etc. Flexeril is considered a muscle relaxant.

It's actual mechanism of action is by muscle relaxation - competes with ACh to occupy cholinergic receptors at the motor end plate of the neuromuscular junction to prevent depolarization. I know the patient appears to be paralyzed (they do not move) and people in healthcare often refer to them as paralytics, but these drugs are actually muscle relaxants.

You say tomato, I say to-mah-to.

heartICU · Jul 26, 2005

I understand paralysis as the inability to move from any cause. I understand "relaxant" as something that relieves tension or spasms, etc.
This is all semantics, we can agree to disagree. I just think that the term "muscle relaxant" implys that voluntary muscle control is retained.

Well, when dosing these drugs, some control can be retained. For example, if you give a 50kg patient a 5mg dose of rocuronium, your patient most likely will not stop breathing, but they may feel some muscular weakness. However, if you give them a 50mg dose, you are almost certain to fully relax all their muscles. As with many drugs, the effects you get depends on the dose you give.

But you are right, it is just semantics. :rolleyes:

jewelcutt · Jul 26, 2005

Rocuronium is a NDMR - Non-depolarizing Muscle Relaxant

Succinylcholine is a DMR - Depolarizing Muscle Relaxant

These are the acual classifications of these drugs

We are not using lay terms, the rest of you are. In anesthesia we know what the actual definitions of anesthetic drugs are. Yes it does produce paralysis, but to us, muscle relaxation is the same thing. Drugs such as flexeril produce some relaxation from a centrally acting standpoint.

mwbeah · Jul 27, 2005

rocuronium is a paralytic, not a muscle relaxant. we use these drugs in the er for rapid sequence intubation and believe me, they will make the patient stop moving, breathing, etc. flexeril is considered a muscle relaxant.

the correct term for classification of agents that cause disruption at the neuromuscular junction (specifically the nicotinic (m) receptor) are either "depolarizing neuromuscular blockers" or "nondepolarizing neuromuscular blocker".

paralysis is defined as:

"the inability to use a muscle because of injury to or disease of the nerves leading to the muscle. www.ahrq.gov/data/hcup/factbk1/fctbk5.htm" (from the agency for healthcare research and quality)."

the term paralytic is used, however if one wants to be concerned with semantics then "paralytic" would be incorrect. however the term "paralytic agent" is widely used throughout the field.

mike

CougRN · Jul 27, 2005

Rocuronium is a paralytic, not a muscle relaxant. We use these drugs in the ER for rapid sequence intubation and believe me, they will make the patient stop moving, breathing, etc. Flexeril is considered a muscle relaxant.

also, roc is used for a modified RSI. a true RSI is done with Sux only.

BabyRN2Be · Jul 27, 2005

I *believe* these are only available in IV form. I use an IV drug book when my pts are on these drips.

Fentanyl is now available in a solid form called "Actiq." It's a lozenge on a stick (I hate to say "lollipop" :)) that's often used in treatment of breakthrough cancer pain. It can be also used for the treatment of chronic pain, if your insurance will cover it - many don't because of the cost. It runs about $1500/mo. because of the development of the drug, space needed to store it, etc. Very helpful but very expensive.

BabyRN2Be · Jul 27, 2005

I don't think people were being disrespectful, I think they were merely responding in the same manner the OP asked. Posting a general question without letting us know where you're coming from won't get you very far. I'm sure many would be glad to answer the questions this nursing student had asked, had they been asked respectfully also.

It definitely helps to know where the poster is coming from, whether it be a nursing/medical student or a lay person who wants to know how these drugs are used.

This reminds me of a case on another BBS. Let me state for the record, that I do NOT believe that this is the case of the OP in this thread, as I don't think that the person I am going to refer to is smart enough to cover his tracks. I truly believe that the OP is asking about these drugs for a legitimate reason.

That being said... there is case on another BBS in which a person claims to have gotten a hard drive from a rummage sale. On this hard drive are the medical records of what appears to be the owner's former patients. So, this person (a registered sex offender, no less :rolleyes: ) goes into the medical forums and posts medically transcribed records (meant for another doctor) about a person's history... he even includes the person's full name, DOB, etc. He's asking questions about the pts condition, what causes the disease, things like that.

Needless to say, the moderators on that board immediately remove the person's name from the posts and ask the person to delete all medical records he has on his hard drive. From what I understand, I believe that the local police are involved. This is such a blatant disregard of HIPAA. And pretty scary, I might add. I do hope that they are able to secure those records lest an unreputable person finds those and continues to do the same thing.

Jetman · Aug 1, 2005

the correct term for classification of agents that cause disruption at the neuromuscular junction (specifically the nicotinic (m) receptor) are either "depolarizing neuromuscular blockers" or "nondepolarizing neuromuscular blocker".
paralysis is defined as:
"the inability to use a muscle because of injury to or disease of the nerves leading to the muscle. www.ahrq.gov/data/hcup/factbk1/fctbk5.htm" (from the agency for healthcare research and quality)."
the term paralytic is used, however if one wants to be concerned with semantics then "paralytic" would be incorrect. however the term "paralytic agent" is widely used throughout the field.
mike

i stand corrected, thanks for the info. jetman