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$750 CA RN License??? No way!

Nurses   (4,317 Views | 59 Replies)

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TriciaJ has 39 years experience as a RN and specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.

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13 hours ago, Sour Lemon said:

There will be no shortage of applicants. Almost all of the nurses I work with in California are foreign-born. I hope they use the fee money to hire more BON staff. Right now, there seems to be one 99 year old woman named Mildred working there ...and she seems to take frequent naps and forget where she's at and what she's supposed to be doing.

When I applied, there was also a 20 year old named Jason or Jared or Jedediah.  He answered the phone one day a week.  Never the same day.  Otherwise, the phone didn't get answered.

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Sour Lemon has 9 years experience.

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3 hours ago, TriciaJ said:

When I applied, there was also a 20 year old named Jason or Jared or Jedediah.  He answered the phone one day a week.  Never the same day.  Otherwise, the phone didn't get answered.

I was imagining a Mildred, but this works too.

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Bonstemps has 10 years experience as a EMT-P and specializes in Disaster, Conflict Mgmt.

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21 hours ago, Jedrnurse said:

Is it discrimination (with all the ethnic/race-based negative connotations that has) or just job protection/protectionism?

Honestly, if we have new grads and experienced home-grown nurses here without jobs, why should we facilitate nurses coming into the field from other countries?

I don't know many who can afford this. It is honestly pretty racist, xenophobic AND classist to create systems with steep entry fees. I'm not saying that is exactly what is happening, but systems like these are built with  a very specific person in mind. I'll be a graduating nurse very soon who has everything going for me, and this fee would keep me out of CA.

I don't understand why you think this is a form of job protection; this is a massive filter and only those who have the cash can pay the entry fee.

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TriciaJ has 39 years experience as a RN and specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.

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1 hour ago, Sour Lemon said:

I was imagining a Mildred, but this works too.

No, he was Mildred's grandson.  He called Mildred to the phone who blamed DOJ for my application taking 6 months.  The DOJ claimed they processed my fingerprints right away.  Mildred and Jared finally sent me my license.  This was all right after the governator fired everyone.  Except them.

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Sour Lemon has 9 years experience.

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40 minutes ago, Bonstemps said:

I don't know many who can afford this. It is honestly pretty racist, xenophobic AND classist to create systems with steep entry fees. I'm not saying that is exactly what is happening, but systems like these are built with  a very specific person in mind. I'll be a graduating nurse very soon who has everything going for me, and this fee would keep me out of CA.

I don't understand why you think this is a form of job protection; this is a massive filter and only those who have the cash can pay the entry fee.

A few things ...
It's expensive to move to a foreign country. A $750 licensing fee wouldn't be anyone's biggest expense under those circumstances. Even moving from one state to another is a heck of a lot more expensive than that.

There have been issues with the California BON and foreign nurses faking credentials to gain licensure. It could be that the process has become even more involved, time-consuming, and expensive as a result.

Life is full of "massive filters". Nursing school was a massive, expensive filter, in itself. Not everybody can afford it, but that doesn't mean that the requirement will be dropped.

I don't have strong opinions about foreign workers in the USA, but I am aware that many countries set up favorable conditions for their own citizens creating a disadvantage for all others. I'm not politically involved enough to know all of the reasons why, but I imagine that the citizens of those countries want to be able to compete on a smaller scale, in their own communities, as opposed to with the entire world.
 

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HomeBound has 20 years experience and specializes in ED, ICU, Prehospital.

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Thank you. Just a few on this thread with some actual experience living and working in CA, as you and I have had. Gotta love armchair "experts" with QVC cred to chime in about how they know because....sitting in front of google.

I can say....maybe....75% of the nurses I worked with in Sac were foreign born---but had been here for more than 20 years, working as nurses. At UCD, foreign born, at least in the ED, were a rarity. I worked PRN in northern CA at several other places, and the smaller the hospital, the larger percentage of foreign nurses. I never heard or saw any shenanigans as far as licensing--but I do know that several of my Philipino colleagues would definitely work management on an applicant that they had in mind--and it was usually a family member or friend that had emigrated.

There is absolutely no illegality or "unfairness" about it-it happened all the time where I've worked with US trained nurses. My RN Mgr had his daughter hired in as unit secretary on another floor. His wife worked in registration. It is what it is. Call it nepotism or protectionism---the VA practices a form of this as well as other places "we only hire from within" until no internal applicants are found, and then the job is posted outside. Explain this, expert poster. We only hire from within. Meaning....all you people out there? You're not welcome to apply for this job, because we only offer these jobs to our own. But noooo. This is "discrimination". I think someone may need to take that expert knowledge and file a class action suit against California, The US Government, any employer that has internal postings, most countries with immigration laws---and just sue the pants off them all....because she googled it. And she knows.

Back in 1995, there was a huge influx of Irish and Philipino nurses who were willing to take the night shifts that supposedly could not be filled with US trained nurses...that was in Philly though. I have no idea what the rest of the country was experiencing. I was grateful to be employed, frankly, as the situation back then was what the situation now is approaching. Tight, tight market---and yes...

The very definition of "filter" and "selective"---is protectionism. An employer, state, country---makes it's own rules about who to allow in, based on criteria that they are legally allowed to use. Think immigration. This country only allows those who follow the process, and even then, they may not get in. Australia would not allow (when I wanted to travel there as a nurse) anyone that wasn't on the "critical need" listing that they put out (yet another thing dr. google can educate even the most expert here on)---to come and work. They protect their own workers. Canada does the same thing. Their rules and regulations are such that you have to have a BSN, and you have to pass their exams, even though you've passed them here. There are fees that are absolutely exhorbitant to be a nurse there. If a fee filters out workers, then there is more of a chance that nurses that are already there, or nurses that will simply bite the bullet and pay (a revenue generator)---are going to apply.

I can tell ya....when I paid for CA, the license was $100. I'm sorry for those nurses who are going to get whacked with $350. That sucks. Renewal for me is going to be the same as renewal for you, but...the initial is steep. It may have given me pause if I had to pay $350. I may have thought...meh....I don't really need to travel to CA. The license process is tedious and very fraught  with mistakes you can make that prevent you from being licensed. If your verification "expires" before all of the other paperwork comes to them? It gets kicked out. And they don't tell you. You find out 4 months later when you sit on hold for 4 hours (if it doesn't go to vm) and find out you did it wrong. California can be a beastly license to get---and I have renewed mine every time---because of that.

Here's a simplistic example---but my dad was a Teamster, working in steel mills in the late 70's. Protectionism is what a business does in order to keep jobs local---with local people working there. We do what we have to do in order to keep our jobs for our people, tax revenue stays here, because there are families and roots being set down.

As far as the totally ignorant of the actual facts poster that doesn't seem to understand  how to interpret statements correctly-- California requires a transcript to be sent---because they have a standard to which all nurses must be trained (yet another way to filter applicants out and protect those that are trained in CA)---why doesn't the ignorant person who claimed this isn't true---apply for a license in CA and see for itself?  I did---and I submitted my application---it took 12 weeks, on the dot to the day that the Board said they were processing my submit date. I had to give them an  original school transcript (not one that is sent by you, even if its official. it must come from your nursing school or the clearinghouse that handles your school transcripts) Two other travelers in my group were  denied because of the "MicroBiology with separate Lab" requirement. The CABON was amazingly nice when I went there in person--two people in line--I paid my $100 for a copy of my CA verification to be sent to another state for processing. Some states require a verification---and most people have licensure that the NCSBN handles--CA is not on the quick verify list. You have to go and pay CA $100 (it may be more now, because....oh....you know.....revenue needs) to send the same verification that the NCSBN handles for most other states.

So by this thinking---you're saying that employers that require a BSN for you to be hired---are all discriminating against ADNs?  Employers, landlords, countries, states---all have the right to put into place rules that they feel are necessary in order to achieve whatever goal they have in mind. If it's a staff of all BSNs?  Then that is what they are allowed to do.  If you want on the staff there? Then you pay the price of admission---get your BSN.

 

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I paid about $100 total for my initial license in Pennsylvania, and then $420 to endorse to California ($350 for application fee, $70 for Livescan).

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Jory has 10 years experience as a MSN, APRN, CNM.

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13 hours ago, DowntheRiver said:

I think what folks are referring to in regards to the Micro with lab issue is several things:

- Was the class taken online? 

- Were the classes separate? 

- Was it counted as one grade or two grades?

This is just anecdotal evidence I've collected from friends moving to CA over the years and endorsing, but some have had issues and had to produce syllabi or have just been denied. 

I don't think CA likes when the Micro with lab class is online and prefers that the classes are separate with two grades. I'm 100% certain someone will prove me wrong, this is just a guess from what I've heard from friends. 

Microbiology is simply not necessary for a pre-licensure degree.  Chemistry, yes, biology, yes. Anatomy and Physiology, yes. But Microbiology? Absolutely not.  There isn't anything in any pre-licensure program where you would need that.  It's a fluff course.  

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Jory has 10 years experience as a MSN, APRN, CNM.

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3 hours ago, HomeBound said:

 

As far as the totally ignorant of the actual facts poster that doesn't seem to understand  how to interpret statements correctly-- California requires a transcript to be sent---because they have a standard to which all nurses must be trained (yet another way to filter applicants out and protect those that are trained in CA)---why doesn't the ignorant person who claimed this isn't true---apply for a license in CA and see for itself?  I did---and I submitted my application---it took 12 weeks, on the dot to the day that the Board said they were processing my submit date. I had to give them an  original school transcript (not one that is sent by you, even if its official. it must come from your nursing school or the clearinghouse that handles your school transcripts) Two other travelers in my group were  denied because of the "MicroBiology with separate Lab" requirement. The CABON was amazingly nice when I went there in person--two people in line--I paid my $100 for a copy of my CA verification to be sent to another state for processing. Some states require a verification---and most people have licensure that the NCSBN handles--CA is not on the quick verify list. You have to go and pay CA $100 (it may be more now, because....oh....you know.....revenue needs) to send the same verification that the NCSBN handles for most other states.

So by this thinking---you're saying that employers that require a BSN for you to be hired---are all discriminating against ADNs?  Employers, landlords, countries, states---all have the right to put into place rules that they feel are necessary in order to achieve whatever goal they have in mind. If it's a staff of all BSNs?  Then that is what they are allowed to do.  If you want on the staff there? Then you pay the price of admission---get your BSN.

 

Let me guess...you are a Trump supporter because all of your posts screams egocentrism and support of discriminatory practices.  

When you place encumbrances that prevents the influx of people in and out of the state by having practices that have not been proven AT ALL to result in better patient outcomes, you end up shutting out qualified applicants that would otherwise come to the state.  I see more jobs advertised across the board for California than any other state...want to know why? Nobody wants to deal with the red tape.  It literally, doesn't matter if a person meets the requirements or not...if you have other options of places to move and if other states are pretty much uniform with others, why would you? 

Talk to any nurse recruiter or travel agency...they have the hardest time getting people to move to California.  I hate to break it to you...not everybody wants to live there.  Water issues, high cost of living, dealing with earthquakes...East Coast folks don't have to deal with any of that. 

California doesn't even have the top pre-licensure programs in the country.  They don't even have the top 10 MSN programs, and they rank #29 in patient care outcomes.

I'll tell you where California ranks #1 :  The most critical shortage of nurses of any state.  If you look...the states that have the most critical shortages generally do not belong to the nursing compact, therefore, nurses are moving to states where they can freely move.  This is very important if you live on a state border like myself.  

I wouldn't exactly call that a success story and sounds like California has a huge opportunity for improvement. 

People that live in California like yourself, that have obviously never ventured outside the state, don't seem to understand that more regulations doesn't necessarily equal superior nurses in the state.  What it does is unfairly burden the state with shortages that may not otherwise exist.  That ultimately has an impact on patient care outcomes.  

ADN nurses widely practice in California. The reason Canada is able to require a BSN for the minimum practice standard of nursing (something the US has never been able to do)...had you bothered to research it more...which you didn't...is because when diploma programs were phased out, pre-licensure programs were never offered in community colleges.  Diploma programs were typically three year programs, so it made sense to just transition these to four year programs in 4-year colleges and universities only.

Canadian programs are superior in their training...by a mile...to American programs.  When you go into a BSN nursing program in Canada, you spend that entire four years focused on nursing courses and other complementary sciences. You don't waste the first two years taking general education courses such as history, foreign language, unrelated electives, etc...the clinical hours they do dwarfs the American system.  

If you want to be more educated on how healthcare policies and unnecessary barriers to care impact the quality of patient care--get your MSN.  

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TriciaJ has 39 years experience as a RN and specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.

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37 minutes ago, Jory said:

Let me guess...you are a Trump supporter because all of your posts screams egocentrism and support of discriminatory practices.  

Canadian programs are superior in their training...by a mile...to American programs. 

 

As a Canadian nurse and a Trump supporter, I really don't know what to make of this.  Glad my program was superior, although I don't really think it was.  I didn't know I was egocentric and supported discriminatory practices.  I think I've just been stereotyped.

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HomeBound has 20 years experience and specializes in ED, ICU, Prehospital.

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IKR.

If Jabba had any reading comprehension, it would know that I am the biggest fan of NOT moving to CA, because of the burdensome taxes, fires, water problems....it's regurgitating some of my own posts from answering LiLPeanut about her liking her life in SF.

Micro is fluff. SO?  California requires it.

Yawn. 

Jabba, get back on the meds. People here are really  getting a bit bored with the nonsensical "expertise". 

HAHAHAHAHA....if you knew what an absolute asinine statement it is to attempt to demean someone for their political leanings---that goes to the small mind---some QVC cred you got there.

I'm not, by the way, but many here are, Trump supporters. Learn to debate, Jabba. The pathetic diversion tactics....whatevs.

California requires the micro. Maybe you might want to, again, use your powerful lack of logic and authority to go there and let them know how stupid they are compared to you.

Read a little more, J, and maybe take a few real, actual courses in logic. Then come on by and I'm sure someone here might still want to hear what you spew.

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Jory has 10 years experience as a MSN, APRN, CNM.

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2 hours ago, HomeBound said:

IKR.

If Jabba had any reading comprehension, it would know that I am the biggest fan of NOT moving to CA, because of the burdensome taxes, fires, water problems....it's regurgitating some of my own posts from answering LiLPeanut about her liking her life in SF.

Micro is fluff. SO?  California requires it.

Yawn. 

Jabba, get back on the meds. People here are really  getting a bit bored with the nonsensical "expertise". 

HAHAHAHAHA....if you knew what an absolute asinine statement it is to attempt to demean someone for their political leanings---that goes to the small mind---some QVC cred you got there.

I'm not, by the way, but many here are, Trump supporters. Learn to debate, Jabba. The pathetic diversion tactics....whatevs.

California requires the micro. Maybe you might want to, again, use your powerful lack of logic and authority to go there and let them know how stupid they are compared to you.

Read a little more, J, and maybe take a few real, actual courses in logic. Then come on by and I'm sure someone here might still want to hear what you spew.

When you start the name calling...we are done.  Just proves you have nothing of value to share.  Just a whole post of one-liners.

I doubt you are even a nurse. 

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