CA BRN New Requirements For NCLEX RN international students

p_aq09 · Jul 10, 2012

has anyone here renewed (or knows someone who did) their CA license and been subjected to the same requirement? i applied a couple years ago and have taken and passed the exam last march. i am an american citizen who finished my studies in the philippines and have yet gone back to practice. upon hearing this, i'm now worried that i, too, will be put under the same predicament. is there anyway out of this? thanks to all of you that will respond and good luck to us all......

steppybay · Jul 10, 2012

has anyone here renewed (or knows someone who did) their CA license and been subjected to the same requirement? i applied a couple years ago and have taken and passed the exam last march. i am an american citizen who finished my studies in the philippines and have yet gone back to practice. upon hearing this, i'm now worried that i, too, will be put under the same predicament. is there anyway out of this? thanks to all of you that will respond and good luck to us all......

From what I understand, if this is very FIRST time renewal and the license has not expired, you just need to pay the fee and you're not required to submit the 30 units of nursing courses, but if this is your 2nd renewal, then you need to comply with the renewal requirements. Check the CA BON website.

So you should be "safe" for the first time, but know that the CA BON can look into your educational background at any time and they can enforce the same affected rules against your license.

p_aq09 · Jul 10, 2012

thanks for your POV..are you an RN as well? that's what i was thinking of initially but i doubt if they would overlook your first renewal and then get back at you on your second. i read an article somewhere that their main reason of doing this was to "protect the public" hence, being more rigid with their own policies. so, i fear that my renewal, before it expires in year-end of 2013, will be met in the same manner as those applying for their first time.

steppybay · Jul 11, 2012

thanks for your POV..are you an RN as well? that's what i was thinking of initially but i doubt if they would overlook your first renewal and then get back at you on your second. i read an article somewhere that their main reason of doing this was to "protect the public" hence, being more rigid with their own policies. so, i fear that my renewal, before it expires in year-end of 2013, will be met in the same manner as those applying for their first time.

Me an RN? Ha, far far away from that now given the issues in the States. Still trying to get my ATT from out of CA, lol and since it can't be endorsed over back into CA, I want to make sure of the state I want to work in for at least 3-5 years.

p_aq09 · Jul 12, 2012

lol..i've been doin some research and it seems that the excelsior and nightingale case, along with the turnover of the board, instigated this sudden change of policy. i just got my license but i'm planning to move elsewhere coz i think that if they do apply it to all phil-grads, then we all will be sinking in the same boat.

its hard to bring this to the attention of the ched, prc, and any other body concerned because for sure, they will just shrug it off and advise us to apply elsewhere. plus, i haven't heard of a nursing student who completed his/her clinical cases by their 3rd year (ncm 101 and 102). so i guess that, reformulating all of our curricula to suit the needs of the CA-BRN would certainly be out of the question.

what states have you inquired in to? i haven't gotten a chance to check out the boards individually to see the requirements and validity of licenses. but, i think that i'm gonna try to apply to any state within the scope of the NLC instead and apply for endorsement should i decide to go elsewhere.

good luck to us all.

**btw, i'm not a local RN. im guessing that most of you here have passed the NLE. are any of you enrolled in a review program or are you just studying on your own?

steppybay · Jul 12, 2012

lol..i've been doin some research and it seems that the excelsior and nightingale case, along with the turnover of the board, instigated this sudden change of policy. i just got my license but i'm planning to move elsewhere coz i think that if they do apply it to all phil-grads, then we all will be sinking in the same boat.
its hard to bring this to the attention of the ched, prc, and any other body concerned because for sure, they will just shrug it off and advise us to apply elsewhere. plus, i haven't heard of a nursing student who completed his/her clinical cases by their 3rd year (ncm 101 and 102). so i guess that, reformulating all of our curricula to suit the needs of the CA-BRN would certainly be out of the question.
what states have you inquired in to? i haven't gotten a chance to check out the boards individually to see the requirements and validity of licenses. but, i think that i'm gonna try to apply to any state within the scope of the NLC instead and apply for endorsement should i decide to go elsewhere.
good luck to us all.
**btw, i'm not a local RN. im guessing that most of you here have passed the NLE. are any of you enrolled in a review program or are you just studying on your own?

I haven't pinned down any one state yet, still looking around, maybe even take a "tour" of the interested states one day or week or year.

Regarding endorsement, it doesn't matter if you get an out of state license, you'll not be able to transfer it over into CA, since CA will again require full documentation, so then you're back to square one, that's why I was telling others, just plan to get your license in the state that you feel comfortable in for 3-4-5 years, but coming back to CA is currently not possible.

I'm not sure you read the other postings but it has nothing to do with the BON changes, as there has been none at all, there was something going on, but it was left alone.

What brought on this strict enforcement of not only PH applicants, but of many other countries: it was the discovery of many international aplicants submitting false documents. When the CA BON looked more into the situation, it was found that some PH grads applied with false documents, some never even went to nursing school, nor graduated or if they did and in order to "comply" with CA BON requirements, they simply purchased them off the streets of the PH area known to produce any kind of documents for cash. A bunch of greedy people seems to be the main problem and it's affected everyone outside of the states.

In their further investigations, it seemed like they found a pattern of some false documents, that's why they are asking for more and more documentation, as I think they will see there are differences in what was submitted from before and then with the new submission, it doesn't match up. According to another poster, CA BON invesigations just started last year and that's why they are looking into other foreign nurses that got their CA license for possible false documents which seems to be punishable by the CA BON under "fraud offenses" and why 2004 is one of the years was picked as the time to look at those nursing come renewal time. They will probably find even more PH nurses (as well as other countries) that did give the CA BON bad documents or may enforce the concurrency issue, with the remedy of maybe approving their license if they take certain courses within a certain time period, who knows, it's been posted here by someone who seemed to have some knowledge by not confirmed yet.

Plus the another main thing is that they found our PH educational system does not allow for the concurrency of classes and clinicals, which is standard in all CA schools and colleges and has to be maintained or they will disallow those graduating from those schools and we're dealing with a requirement in their rules since 1987, something our people that was to make sure we're in the same boat didn't bother to make the adjustments. Don't forget that our CHED and etal just decided to let the nursing programs go overboard and cram as many students into the schools, it makes more money for them, but they should have shut them down years ago, here's some interesting articles:

https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/shut-down-poor-284100.html

https://allnurses.com/philippines-nursing-programs/ched-flunks-147-a-481514.html

Had I known about this and this site back in 2010, I would have cut my losses short, but instead, we have all wasted 4 years of hard studying (at least to get into CA, but there are other states), however, it was pointed out that some 33% of PH grads look to working in CA alone, due to having family and friends in CA, overall climate and also for reasons many other US citizens/grads from other parts of the state wants to work in CA.

We can do this but for now not in CA or VT (same concurrency problem or says "unacceptable").

steppybay · Jul 12, 2012

One PH poster said that the CHED, PRC and PNA were all coming to CA to discuss this situation, but it was not known if that was true or not.

Who knows, maybe the three agencies did come over, but knowing the CA BON, who are these three PH agencies to tell them what to do. I think what will come out of that meeting if it really did happen is that the CA BON will tell them, you guys (CHED, PRC and PNA) need to get their act together and stop cramming the schools, stop using inexperienced clinical instructors and all that to bring the standards up!

Have you talked to some of the CA nursing grad students? Oh my GOD, check this out:

No wonder that most of them passed the NCLEX in the first time and usually withing months of graduating! I think the average published NCLEX passing rate in CA is like 86%. It's because of that concurrency of clinical and theory that makes for the NCLEX critical thinking! It's because the CA (and probably for most of the 49 states) they have real life nurses that not only have a BSN or higher degree above BSN and or if they don't they have to be approved by the CA BON and they have so many years of experience! The student have to follow that nurse everywhere except for lunch and the bathroom.

Our clinical instructors were either brand new nursing students themselves or nurses with very little experience, in fact, I think most of us students knew more than the instructors, but for those many other things we needed to know, we didn't know how to handle it or taught why.

This is also one reason why CA schools and other states have impacted nursing enrollment, there are only so many hospitals that can safely instruct new nursing students as the CA students are on a "one-to-one basis" with a real live experienced nurse and with real patients.This is also true of the other states, they all have a certain common standard.

p_aq09 · Jul 12, 2012

very well said. for someone who hasn't even taken the exam yet, im impressed with the amount of research you've done going through the NCSBN and BRN.

re: about the endorsement, i wasn't referring to get endorsed back into cali because the same rule would definitely apply. i was rather talking about the NLC and thinking about filing for endorsement within the states listed.

yup, the majority of pinoys do choose cali because of those reasons.

the only reason they have a high passing rate is because they're used to thinking analytically. most schools here are too lazy to actually teach something and end up being objective (i.e. identification type of questions testing our knowledge and comprehension) which, again, reflects how schools opt to hire novice nurses with minimal experience. that's why when i took the nclex, i went back to my books and forced myself to forget about everything they taught me in school. also, i think we have more clinical hours than them. but, then again, even if ours is almost doubled than theirs, we fail in comparison to the quality of clinical experience.

about the rumors of them going to talk with the CA-BRN, you wish!!! lol.. they can't even handle their own internal and domestic problems, what more when they meddle with the affairs of another governing body?! even if some resolution was filed to the PNA to investigate these claims, it would still be futile to do so (they can't even handle our issues with having to pay hospitals for rendering our own professional services!!!).

either way, they all should really look into this tho because if they really want to raise the bar and have us compete globally, they should start cleaning house from the ground - up. don't get me wrong, we have one of the best reputations (mainly because of our filipino traits of being friendly, polite, submissive, hospitable and most important of all is our ingenuity) but we shouldn't be trained to be contented with being a "bedside nurse" or a "physician's handmaid" while we compare our possible salary to the sleazy PHP8-15K we make here. that's what sets us apart from the rest. we're willing to do the dirty work while the others have their eyes set on managerial positions. now with the schools, everything is all about making an easy buck or two. until, they get rid of all of that (hopefully during this present administration but that's just wishful thinking), nursing programs will continue to pop up left and right.

so i guess it just boils down to this then. we cant undo what has already been done. its either we all make a collective effort to try do something about it, or we could just drop everything else and forget about working in cali (unless you got the money to pay for school there or are considering a demotion to an lpn/lvn role which, by the way, is almost being wiped out due to the recession and overlapping functions among them and RNs and CNAs). or we could also wait for the day for nurses there to go on strike if the board does deny our renewal upon further re-evaluation.

RmCU_nA · Jul 13, 2012

what would you do if u are a phil grad and studied for NCLEX RN for like a year then got denied? NEED SUPPORT GROUP!!!

anybody living in sacramento ca and looking for a job as caregiver or cna..etc....NEED SOME PEOPLE IN THE SAME SITUATION..

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Jul 13, 2012

New: Nurse Registration Forum

Merged with our thread: CA BRN new requirements for NCLEX RN international students

steppybay · Jul 13, 2012

what would you do if u are a phil grad and studied for NCLEX RN for like a year then got denied? NEED SUPPORT GROUP!!!
anybody living in sacramento ca and looking for a job as caregiver or cna..etc....NEED SOME PEOPLE IN THE SAME SITUATION..

At this present time and foreseeable future, CA is not going to happen for the mass majority of us PH grads.

So rather than waste the time spent on studying for the NCLEX-RN, you have no other choice other than look into the other 48 states (VT BON has said that PH courses are "unacceptable", see Lanze's thread). Based on others with the processing time of our courses by an outside evaluator and taking the English proficiency test, it will give you another year to prepare for the NCLEX-RN, if the desire is to become an RN.

If you decide to stay in CA, then study for the NCLEX-PN exam, not the NCLEX-RN, to become an LVN.

But from others who either are working or know of someone closely related, CNA jobs are just as hard to find and get as much as the LVN's (I read somewhere there are much more CNA's and LVN's than RN's due to CNA certification is easy to get and more LVN programs are available), but then again, so are regular new grad nurses getting hired is very tough, it's not a nice world for nurses like before.

greenjungle · Jul 15, 2012

You could say that the doors have been slammed shut on PH grads. External forces beyond anyone's control. Even beyond hope and prayers.