BSN's vs. Community college

I don't understand why anyone is against paying a little more for extra education. Why not pay 25 cents an hour for certification or a degree? It's just a small token to say that formal education is appreciated and doesn't take away form anyone else. The vast majority of raises still come with years of experience. I know formal education doesn't necessarily guarantee a good nurse, but let's be honest about it, neither does experience.

Soooo...someone with a bachelors degree in Parks and Recreation (yes my brother in law has one) who goes for an accelerated BSN deserves to be paid more than the community college trained nurse?

Well, that gets back to my original question. What is a BSN these days versus ADN? It used to be BSN was four years, ADN was two years. BSN used to mean more time = more education, ADN used to mean less time = less education.

But that may not be the case anymore.

There's been many posts about accelerated BSN programs that take as little as one year. Those programs may require another bachelor's, but consider this: There are ADN programs which require two years of pre-reqs, and many won't give you credit for another degree. So you're looking at a four year time frame. Kinda sounds like a bachelor's, at least in terms of time.

So, this begs the question: Is there really any difference anymore, at least in terms of time and education? It seems like the course requirements are becoming so blurred that there's less and less difference between the two. That certainly seems to be the case with the BSN program in my area, which basically requires only one extra semester, not the traditional two extra years.

So, is the argument more about titles or education? Because if we're talking about actual education and time invested, there may not be much difference between the two. Just some food for thought.

So, how about comparing credit hours for the two degrees for curiosity's sake? My program calls for 70 credit hours for the 2 year RN program. (they tend to suggest doing it in three years but I have to have full time status for my financial aid)

Hi all.

I just wanted to say that nurses with BSN's in my opinion should be paid more, and have preference in the hiring process. In community college they basically pay you to go, and at a University, you take on soooo many student loans. The upper division classes are much more difficult at a University and I truly feel it's unfair to group the two (BSN, and community) together. It's completley different. I have heard that there are some states that requrire a BSN if that's true, I think it's great.

Bye for now.

Compensation calculations should be based on pay for the "job description". If two people are handling a position (bedside nursing) and in essence doing the same job......they deserve the same pay. Now, within that pay grade, you could offer tiers that can be earned (clinical ladder type compensation) like national certifications, additional education, involvement in committees, mentoring of staff, etc. That is how bedside nurses should be paid.

Now, on the issue of education overall.......here's my two cents. (And this is from a Diploma grad who now........27 yrs later is working on my MSN). Education is power and authority........if you think that the nursing profession can continue to have such varied levels of education and still achieve full professional credibility, you are only fooling yourself. In 1977 when I finished my Diploma program........finished with a A.A.S too.......it was different. If you want to be a nurse at the bedside......fine.....it didn't matter....that educational level was fine. Just as long as you pass the boards and get your RN. You can do that job forever. However, you find out very quickly that if you want flexiblity within your profession you need a degree. So I toiled for 6 yrs part time to get a BSN and when I finished.......I left the bedside. (except for per diem work) I went into pharmaceutical sales, medical sales and sales management and it was my BS degree that gave me that flexibility. If things were different within the profession, I might've stayed but overall, I felt that in order to gain some benefit from that 6 yrs of toil, I needed to see some kind of increase in pay to justify why I had even bothered to get the BSN. I wasn't ready to continue school for an MSN and I wasn't really interested in nurse clinician or management jobs. So I made the most of my degree and went into pharmaceutical sales.

So education is key........if you don't want to be trapped in an aspect of any profession that you may love now but as you get older, you find that you need something else. Additionally, the greatest arguement I have heard for nurses continuing their education is the fact that the majority of allied health sciences (Physical Therapy, Pharmacy, etc) all require advanced degrees.......so again.........you have to look at how is nursing ever going to be viewed as a true profession unless we continue our education............and that's why I'm back in school! (Oh, and I work the nightshift 36 to 48 hrs a week........so don't think I don't know how hard everyone is working!):)

I'm glad there are different options, and different levels, available. If I were fresh out of high school, I would like to go straight for a BSN. But I am 40, with a large family, so I'm starting with LPN. I had decided if I got into the LPN program, I would take it. If I didn't get into either the LPN or ADN program, I would continue working on pre-reqs for BSN. As it turned out, I got into the LPN program right away.

As for why BSNs don't get higher pay than ADNs, and whether they should, I really don't know.

I've been considering finishing my BSN for a while. i'll get paid 50 cents more. I work about 1000 hrs/yr so thats 500 dollars extra year.I may retire in say 15 years so thats 7,500 over 15 years. Not sure if it would make me a better nurse though. Kids are both in school now, but I don't really want to go back to school. No I think I will just enjoy life

I'm glad there are different options, and different levels, available. If I were fresh out of high school, I would like to go straight for a BSN. But I am 40, with a large family, so I'm starting with LPN. I had decided if I got into the LPN program, I would take it. If I didn't get into either the LPN or ADN program, I would continue working on pre-reqs for BSN. As it turned out, I got into the LPN program right away.

As for why BSNs don't get higher pay than ADNs, and whether they should, I really don't know.

Dear Betty,

Good for you! You have at least begun the journey! I am all for people starting somewhere to get into the profession. The good thing about having varied options of education is that at least it allows a diverse group of people to get in. Try doing that on an MBA program or some other degree. However, that being said, nurses still need to understand that in order to raise the power of the profession overall, there needs to be higher educational levels dominating the profession. Log onto the American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) and look at a press release regarding education in nursing. The quote I pulled out for a research project states: Currently only 43% of the registered nursing workforce possesses baccalaureate, master's or doctoral degrees. Compounding the problem is the fact that very few nurses prepared in associate degree programs continue their education once they enter the workforce. http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/NewsReleases/2003AikenStudy.htm

That statement is very true......once you start earning the money, it's hard to go back to school. Believe me.......since it was 20 years between completion of my BSN and starting the MSN program.......it's been PAINFUL! Writing papers, learning APA formats (YIKES!!!) and still paying bills, tuition, kid stuff and life in general.

I applaude all of us who have continued the journey. In the long run we will benefit ourselves and the profession overall.

Dear Betty,

Good for you! You have at least begun the journey! I am all for people starting somewhere to get into the profession. The good thing about having varied options of education is that at least it allows a diverse group of people to get in. Try doing that on an MBA program or some other degree. However, that being said, nurses still need to understand that in order to raise the power of the profession overall, there needs to be higher educational levels dominating the profession. Log onto the American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) and look at a press release regarding education in nursing. The quote I pulled out for a research project states: Currently only 43% of the registered nursing workforce possesses baccalaureate, master's or doctoral degrees. Compounding the problem is the fact that very few nurses prepared in associate degree programs continue their education once they enter the workforce. http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/NewsReleases/2003AikenStudy.htm

That statement is very true......once you start earning the money, it's hard to go back to school. Believe me.......since it was 20 years between completion of my BSN and starting the MSN program.......it's been PAINFUL! Writing papers, learning APA formats (YIKES!!!) and still paying bills, tuition, kid stuff and life in general.

I applaude all of us who have continued the journey. In the long run we will benefit ourselves and the profession overall.

RnMaven, thank you for your post, it totally explained the situation in a non-judgemental,non-confrontational way and that is truly refreshing... I am currently an ADN student (graduate in 6/05) and while that option is better for me at this time, I can totally understand your argument for furthering your education.

I totally disagree. Course, that is because I'm going to a community college to be a RN. Sounds like you're just pissed you missed an grand opportunity to save money and time.:chuckle

Our local state BSN program is great if you don't look at the NCLEX pass rate. BOOOOM!

I graduated from a BSN program in MAY 2005 and my school now has the highest passing rate in the state 97%. I have 5 and half months experience as a nurse and a couple of weeks ago decided that I wanted to tranfer to a specialty area. I applied, was interviewed within 3 days, and got the job on the spot. The second question out of the director's mouth was where did I go to school? My coworker with 10 years of nursing experience, 4 of which are on my old floor (telemetry) applied, interviewed with the same people and didn't get the job. She is an extremely nice woman and figured if I got the job, it should be a breeze for her, she was wrong. I don't think a BSN should get paid more for bedside nursing, but it does help you get off that floor a lot quicker.

When my year comes up in June, I will be applying for a clinical manager job. Due to the fact by then I will be half way through an MSN program, I'm confident my lack of bedside nursing experience will not keep me from getting the job. I will play up my education. Therefore, education is never a waste. If your long term goal is not to be a bedside nurse, get your BSN and higher.

My ASN instructors gave us anecdotal information on the high pass rates of ASN (95%) and the low pass rates of BSN (55%). I just reviewed the BON web site and found this to not be true. Excluding a couple of high performers and a couple of consistently low performers, First time pass rates are approximately 80% for both degrees. What is surprising is not the differences between schools but the differences in the same school from year to year. 20% is common place and even 40% can be found. How a school can have 100% one year and 60% the next is just bizarre! Though I'm comfortable with my ASN, I wish I'd gone for BSN. It is the preferred degree.