80% BSN staffing by 2020

Nurses Activism

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This has been on the forefront of every conversation regarding nursing I have been a party to as of late. 80% of BSN prepared nurses for acute care by 2020. Is this just being kicked around as an ideal, or did this mandate pass? Not sure if this is national or state.

A number of hospitals will only hire BSN's. That is certainly their right, however, to use the 80% by 2020 mandate as a reason to not hire less than a BSN is a bit odd to me.

My understanding is that this mandate states that currently employed nurses are grandfathered. They also have a 10 year period of time to obtain a BSN. From what I have read about this, it is a state mandate that has yet to pass in most states. But the information is vauge.

Or is administration just throwing it out there in attempts to go for Magnet status???

Curious on if you have heard this in your area?

BLAH BLAH BLAH!! I graduated from an ADN program in 1979. By 1980, in Oklahoma, the buzzword was to have everyone have a BSN by 1985. The ADN nurses would be relegated to a sub professional status and LPN would be phased out. Many community colleges had already ramped up education for ADN prepared nurses and in 1976 the last diploma program in Oklahoma had closed. I dropped out of a large state university program years ago because of the fluff curriculum and high cost. Look through these comments, see the one about the young nurse who is about to finish the few weeks of orientation in a critical care setting? Would YOU want to be cared for by a Masters degree prepared nurse in an ICU who did not know an art line from a care service line? Like it or not we are a technical profession. Let's get out of the Ivory Towers and meet the needs of the patients foley caths, iv starts, life losses and all.

Can I have an AMEN?!?!?!?! This post truly says it all!

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
Look through these comments see the one about the young nurse who is about to finish the few weeks of orientation in a critical care setting? Would YOU want to be cared for by a Masters degree prepared nurse in an ICU who did not know an art line from a care service line? Like it or not we are a technical profession.[/quote']

If it were me I would prefer to be cared for by a new-grad MSN over the same new-grad with an ADN, or an experienced MSN over the same experienced ADN.

I very much disagree that nursing, as a whole, is a technical profession. Perhaps aspects of it are but the majority is not.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Why is that?

For two reasons. First we have a vast oversupply of nurses. We don't need these "shake and bake", less than two year programs churning out more nurses to worsen the over supply.

Second the quality of their graduates is sub-par in my (admittedly limited) experience. Tons of attitude, not enough clinical skills or critical thinking.

Besides, that nursing has multiply entry points is very upsetting to many people. How many times have you read or heard "BSN needs to be the sole entry point for nursing!". Multiple entry points doesn't seem to bother other health care related professions, but for sure many people in nursing get all worked up about it.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

For two reasons. First we have a vast oversupply of nurses. We don't need these "shake and bake", less than two year programs churning out more nurses to worsen the over supply.

Second the quality of their graduates is sub-par in my (admittedly limited) experience. Tons of attitude, not enough clinical skills or critical thinking.

Besides, that nursing has multiply entry points is very upsetting to many people. How many times have you read or heard "BSN needs to be the sole entry point for nursing!". Multiple entry points doesn't seem to bother other health care related professions, but for sure many people in nursing get all worked up about it.

To clarify, you believe that, in aggregate, ADN programs prepare better nurses than direct-entry MSN?

An you think the nursing excess is d/t DE-MSN programs?

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
To clarify, you believe that, in aggregate, ADN programs prepare better nurses than direct-entry MSN?

An you think the nursing excess is d/t DE-MSN programs?

*** I do a lot of teaching. In my experience the ADN and BSN grads (or soon to be grads) who come to me for preceptorship, or who I teach in the Critical Care Nurse Residency are better prepared than the DE MSN grads (or soon to be grads) I have experience with. I admit that I only have experience with DE MSN grads from two programs. However I also have experience with the BSN grads from those same schools to compare to.

Obvious the glut of nurses is not caused by DE MSN programs. But they are a contributor, as is every program, in particular the short, high cost programs.

If we don't get rid of them at the same time as the ADN programs we will still be locked in the point of entry debate. I am sure you know very well that a single point of entry is very important to many people.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

*** I do a lot of teaching. In my experience the ADN and BSN grads (or soon to be grads) who come to me for preceptorship, or who I teach in the Critical Care Nurse Residency are better prepared than the DE MSN grads (or soon to be grads) I have experience with. I admit that I only have experience with DE MSN grads from two programs. However I also have experience with the BSN grads from those same schools to compare to.

Obvious the glut of nurses is not caused by DE MSN programs. But they are a contributor, as is every program, in particular the short, high cost programs.

If we don't get rid of them at the same time as the ADN programs we will still be locked in the point of entry debate. I am sure you know very well that a single point of entry is very important to many people.

Are you talking about non-APN MSNs?

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Specializes in ICU, PACU, OR.

It's a goal and a long term one to energize the effort to make BSN as entry into practice. No one is forced to do it at this point. I am in the mid point of completing my RN-BSN and am extremely glad I waited after all these years. The experience has added a great deal of perspective to the course work. So even if you're ready to retire, the information learned is very valuable on many levels other than nursing. For me it's not so much about the recommendation as it is a personal goal attainment.

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The scope of practice of the RPN has increased quite a bit in the last few years. I was an RPN before becoming RN and we did not give meds, hang blood, start IV's . They have now been doing this for a few years. Some were very ill-prepared to do so but the hospitals have pushed them into this. They were given little training by the hospitals. You have to remember that some of the older RPN's went to school when they were not taught any of these skills. I can see at some point in the future the floors being staffed by RPN's with RN' s in managerial positions.

A coworker was employed in Texas for a while, met her husband there. He is a LPN, she is RN, she was amazed at what the LPN's were doing there compared to here at that time, about 15 years ago.

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BLAH BLAH BLAH!! I graduated from an ADN program in 1979. By 1980, in Oklahoma, the buzzword was to have everyone have a BSN by 1985. The ADN nurses would be relegated to a sub professional status and LPN would be phased out. Many community colleges had already ramped up education for ADN prepared nurses and in 1976 the last diploma program in Oklahoma had closed. I dropped out of a large state university program years ago because of the fluff curriculum and high cost. Look through these comments, see the one about the young nurse who is about to finish the few weeks of orientation in a critical care setting? Would YOU want to be cared for by a Masters degree prepared nurse in an ICU who did not know an art line from a care service line? Like it or not we are a technical profession. Let's get out of the Ivory Towers and meet the needs of the patients foley caths, iv starts, life losses and all.

As a person who has lost a loved one, due in part to nurses who were unable to recognize and intervene a serious event. I most definitely will not have any of my loved ones looked after again by poorly prepared nursing staff. I will demand someone with experience who can properly assess a patient and call for medical assistance when needed. I won't care that this nurse never wrote a research paper in proper APA format or that her education doesn't make her a "well-rounded" individual. All I care about is that she/he can provide the care the patient needs.

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Here's a question--your LPN's (RPN's) have a larger scope of practice, however, correct?

The scope of practice of the RPN has increased quite a bit in the last few years. I was an RPN before becoming RN and we did not give meds, hang blood, start IV's . They have now been doing this for a few years. Some were very ill-prepared to do so but the hospitals have pushed them into this. They were given little training by the hospitals. You have to remember that some of the older RPN's went to school when they were not taught any of these skills. I can see at some point in the future the floors being staffed by RPN's with RN' s in managerial positions.

A coworker was employed in Texas for a while, met her husband there. He is a LPN, she is RN, she was amazed at what the LPN's were doing there compared to here at that time, about 15 years ago.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Are you talking about non-APN MSNs?

*** Of course. The DE MSN program that prepare basically trained nurses qualified to take the NCLEX and apply for positions as entry level staff nurses. We have several of them in the region.

ANPs would not come to me, an ordinary staff RN, for a preceptorship. Nor would they be likely to be applying to a residency program for new grad RNs in specialty hospital units.

We have DE APN students in my hospital but I don't teach them, except for one day they spend with Rapid Response on orientation.

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Yea, when you actually stop and take a look around on a hospital unit, nurses are the eyes and ears and right hand of the MD's period. How many skills we have at this is built upon experience which can be 1 yr for one nurse and 3 years for another and probably varies from specialty to specialty. The MD's order and we follow it through while making sure the orders are safe. We assess and make sure the MD knows the latest so as to adjust the orders. It's pretty simple... I don't know why it has to be so complicated and made into something bigger than it is except to make reasons for schools and "governing bodies" to make more money. I even have to pay to belong to certification bodies. The hospital should pay for this.... I earned it! I DO the work, I run like hell all day doing what an MD and the patients want and need. Making nurses spend money on another degree.... should be paid for by someone else other than the nurse. We do it all and we have to pay for it all. A great nurse is a great nurse regardless of the degree and set yrs of experience. I see ADNs who are more talented and disciplined than some ARNPs. It's a skillset that should not be abused.

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