BON and alleged verbal abuse via pt

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I'm in a bit of a predicament. I work on a ventilation unit. There's a very large female resident on ventilation. Somewhat young. Alert and oriented. Just started speaking today. Wednesday she claims I said something about a number regarding her weight as in "7 people in 1" or maybe it was like "5 people in 1". I don't really know. I don't remember saying anything about it. That day and that event that happened allegedly, me and an LPN were trying to reposition her. When she was first admitted, we had 4 CNAs at all times when it came to things like changing her, repositioning, bed bath, etc. A few days later she all of a sudden went down to 2 CNAs. I understand I can't just pout and disagree with it, but to me it's a safety issue if there's 2 CNAs when doing something with her to get comfortable instead of 4. I think she's like beyond 400 lbs. I told the LPN like 4 times "I want more help" or "I want 3 people or 4 people" both in front of her, and outside her room. The LPN I worked with that run is energetic and motivated. He's a cool dude, but pressed for time. He kind of just blew it off and instead tried to encourage me to pull her up with him, both of us on opposite ends. I was irritated, but I can't recall myself ever saying anything about her weight. I don't see why I even would considering it has no importance to my job. Tonight, an hour or two before the end of my shift and before her mother left, I was escorted outside as house sup, mother, and lead CNA all talked about it and off the property as there will be an investigation Monday. I don't know what will happen, but I did document 4 pages worth of my side. She was able to speak today and she says I did in fact say something that hinted at her being big, but I don't see why I would because that's just straight rude. I apologized to both her and her mom when they were in there together. The mom didn't want to write a report, but the daughter (patient) did. Now the ombudsman is going to come in and investigate. Am I 100% guaranteed to lose my job and license even though I don't remember saying anything like that? Or could both sides (state and facility) say ok we'll let it slide once, but that's it? I've always been nice to her whether her mom was there or not, always greeted her, always had no issue with helping others who interacted with her like a nurse or CNA. I never turn down a request for help if someone needs it, except financially. Me and the LPN that were in that room were involved and we're both going to be investigated. Also, could this affect me going into nursing school? I was told by my house supervisor who is a really good RN that this could ban me from working in the healthcare field period, but I don't know if that's a little exaggerating. Also, I was told in CNA school that I think in Nevada, if you mess up in one area of certification so bad you can never hold that title, that it won't affect other titles. I'm not trying to intentionally get fired or lose my certification, but it took two days for the pt to find somebody to report it, but I can't remember ever saying it. What I documented I did remember doing and would do in a scenario that needed it, but I never mentioned that I said something to point at her weight because why would I? I took my test for nursing school and I might get accepted, why would I want to go downhill?

3 hours ago, NurseBlaq said:

Wow! Is there a financial issue? Why not sell one vehicle and use the money for housing? And why park both at your place of employment? There's a lot going on with Beldar huh?

because one IS housing, and the other is transport.

1 hour ago, morte said:

because one IS housing, and the other is transport.

I got that but it still means one should be sold and more suitable housing obtained. You can't live out of a van. He has a job. Older motels allow people to reside in them all the time. Has he checked into public housing?

Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.
14 minutes ago, NurseBlaq said:

I got that but it still means one should be sold and more suitable housing obtained. You can't live out of a van. He has a job. Older motels allow people to reside in them all the time. Has he checked into public housing?

Beldar has taken all these types of potentials into consideration when making the choice to live out of his van. It isn't an unreasonable thing to do in and of itself. What he struggles with is the idea that he doesn't have the right to park the van overnight on private property.

I don't think the mention of his prior issues is "snark" to be honest. I think it is likely he has burned many bridges with this employer, if his posts here that mention race, counting other people's money and his general bitterness about his life are anything to go by. It isn't snarky to point this out.

I am not surprised something like the original post has now happened. I suspect, Beldar, that you just aren't a very kind individual at this point in your life. Unhappiness in life tends to show itself whether we mean for it to or not.

Good luck with the investigation. They should not be asking anyone to move a 400+ lb person with only two people to do it. That being said, nobody should be discussing it so bluntly in front of the patient as to embarrass or offend them. A simple "It will be safer for everyone if we get another pair of hands in here" would suffice. Calling out multiple times how many people needed to move the patient wasn't terribly sensitive. If the facility has been looking for a reason to get rid of you, you just flung the door wide open. A four page "explanation" wasn't warranted and likely will come across as a diatribe instead. I would start looking for another job.

9 Votes
37 minutes ago, not.done.yet said:

Beldar has taken all these types of potentials into consideration when making the choice to live out of his van. It isn't an unreasonable thing to do in and of itself. What he struggles with is the idea that he doesn't have the right to park the van overnight on private property.

I don't think the mention of his prior issues is "snark" to be honest. I think it is likely he has burned many bridges with this employer, if his posts here that mention race, counting other people's money and his general bitterness about his life are anything to go by. It isn't snarky to point this out.

I am not surprised something like the original post has now happened. I suspect, Beldar, that you just aren't a very kind individual at this point in your life. Unhappiness in life tends to show itself whether we mean for it to or not.

Well I'm unfamiliar with Beldar or I've been missing his posts, or not paying enough attention. This is my first time actually noticing a pattern and it's because others have pointed it out.

Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.
Just now, NurseBlaq said:

Well I'm unfamiliar with Beldar or I've been missing his posts, or not paying enough attention. This is my first time actually noticing a pattern and it's because others have pointed it out.

You can click on any poster's name to see their posting history, if you are curious and want the whole picture.

4 Votes
Specializes in Gerontology, Med surg, Home Health.

To the person who said "you shouldn't have apologized", I disagree. If the patient was offended whether you purposely offended her or she took something you said in the wrong way, apologizing is the thing to do. Read the book by the malpractice attorney-I can't remember the title- but he is quite convincing that the number of malpractice suits goes down in the patient gets an apology.

I had a patient accuse me of being rude and saying "I don't want her on my floor." What I said was, "I don't want her on THE floor." She had already fallen 4 times in less than 2 weeks. I was very direct with her and repeated what I said. I said I was sorry if she misunderstood. She was fine and all was well.

6 Votes

If it goes up to the Ombudsman, can the ombudsman be forgiving with my certification or are they just out right not for employees? Will she ask about my side of the story and if I told her that if I did say something that the patient took offense to I didn't mean it, will the ombudsmen be a little forgiving? Or just "f you, your desire to be a fantastic nurse, your application for nursing school and all of the above that correlates with you being in nursing"? I didn't call the patient a fat cow or a whale. I would never go down to that level. All I cared about, besides safety, was doing what the nurse asked: Help him pull her up to get comfortable. That was all that was on my mind. When I'm on the floor doing my run, I don't play around. I answer call lights as quickly as possible. If they want ice cream, ice water, a towel, I'll get it for them. If they want pain meds, I'll tell them "Ok, I'll go let your nurse know" and actually do it. I always do it.

4 minutes ago, Beldar_the_Cenobite said:

If it goes up to the Ombudsman, can the ombudsman be forgiving with my certification or are they just out right not for employees? Will she ask about my side of the story and if I told her that if I did say something that the patient took offense to I didn't mean it, will the ombudsmen be a little forgiving? Or just "f you, your desire to be a fantastic nurse, your application for nursing school and all of the above that correlates with you being in nursing"? I didn't call the patient a fat cow or a whale. I would never go down to that level. All I cared about, besides safety, was doing what the nurse asked: Help him pull her up to get comfortable. That was all that was on my mind. When I'm on the floor doing my run, I don't play around. I answer call lights as quickly as possible. If they want ice cream, ice water, a towel, I'll get it for them. If they want pain meds, I'll tell them "Ok, I'll go let your nurse know" and actually do it. I always do it.

Yet you continue to type offensive, subliminal jabs which leads me to believe your tone and intent were condescending and disrespectful. People know when they should be offended and when others say things that aren't on the up and up. I don't believe you weren't offensive as you've done nothing but offend the poor woman here.

3 Votes
Just now, NurseBlaq said:

Yet you continue to type offensive, subliminal jabs which leads me to believe your tone and intent were condescending and disrespectful. People know when they should be offended and when others say things that aren't on the up and up. I don't believe you weren't offensive as you've done nothing but offend the poor woman here.

Is that bold highlighting and your reply you thinking I intentionally was disrespectful to the patient? You must be dyslexic because the contraction "did not" is in that bold statement.

NurseBlaq: I see the sky looks blue, but I don't believe it.

1 Votes
2 minutes ago, Beldar_the_Cenobite said:

Is that bold highlighting and your reply you thinking I intentionally was disrespectful to the patient? You must be dyslexic because the contraction "did not" is in that bold statement.

NurseBlaq: I see the sky looks blue, but I don't believe it.

You just proved my point. Dyslexic is people misreading things, not interpretation which is what you're trying to be a smart Al about. I wholeheartedly believe you said something offensive. I made an observation and you immediately responds with an insult, albeit wrongly, but that's what it is.

5 Votes
6 minutes ago, NurseBlaq said:

You just proved my point. Dyslexic is people misreading things, not interpretation which is what you're trying to be a smart Al about. I wholeheartedly believe you said something offensive. I made an observation and you immediately responds with an insult, albeit wrongly, but that's what it is.

Your bold statement highlighted "I didn't call the patient a fat cow or a whale". Meaning I KNOWINGLY was in her room and didn't say those things to that level. Maybe it was something else that she might have taken to offense. Maybe I was verbally analyzing what kind of CNAs I work with and how many it would take to pull her up. Maybe it was just when I told my nurse "We have to have at least 4 people to pull her up". When some CNAs help they look like they're holding a tray in place when they hold the draw sheet instead of actually lifting. They don't actually lift. They're not actually putting in the effort. Hold the draw sheet like you're pulling on it and heave to the side the patient is going to up in the bed. When someone asks me to help them pull someone up, I NEVER say no find somebody else. That was one of two of my frustrations. The first one that I couldn't get any help with my nurse and I pulling her up. There are times when I wish management, non-nursing related, could also be accountable in helping CNAs when it comes to answering call lights and pulling patients up in bed.

1 Votes
Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.

Your goals, dreams etc have nothing to do with the situation Beldar. So no, they will absolutely not consider any if that if you acted in a way that makes patients or their families feel less than well cared for.

90% of communication is nonverbal. That means only 10% of what you actually say matters. The rest is all tone, inflection, body posture, hand gestures, eye contact and the like. Nobody is fooled when someone is angry or resentful. It is very very easy to see it.

6 Votes
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