boards need to regulate MA's

Published

Really sick of ma's doing all sorts of things under a dr's license. (or RN license). It is quite amazing the things they do. Scary as a matter of fact. Really feel the boards of Nursing need to take a stand on this issue. They regulate everyting else , why not MA's (medical assistants). I plan on looking into it in Ohio. Any one else ? Don't get me wrong, I love MA's Cna's etc... they are a vital part of the medical world. However, the things they are allowed to do are jaw dropping. Not that skills are difficult but the critical thinking aspect of the skill is another matter. I know they are acting under the license of a DR. but, don't want them to care for my child or 88 yo mother.

My own experience with an MA TODAY. I went to a new doctor for the first time and the MA took my BP and got 112/70. Now mind you, My BP hasn't been this low in years. I questioned her and she took it in the other arm and said she "heard" it at 130. Over the last several months my BP has been 150-180/110s. So immediately, I am confused. The doctor comes in and we go over my health history. I tell him that I have been checking my BP at work and it is consistently 150s/110's. He then tells me, he never trusts what his assistants find and always checks it himself. He did and it was 188/110. Obviously, this is a huge difference from what the MA got. He even said he always has to re-check the BPs. HUH? He doesn't even trust his own staff? I look at this and think, if the doctor just took at verbatim what his staff does then I could be, what maybe, dead? The vast differences in readings are the difference in ordering treatment(meds) and not giving any. Ironically, at my old doctor, the MA would do a BP by machine on my forearm and never follow-up with a manual(probably because I am a bigger person) and the DOCTOR WOULDN'T EITHER. The old doc never checked my pressure. I'm not saying MAs are bad. My point is that they are to be supervised by a physician. The old doc never once said anything to his MA as he did not seem to be aware there was a problem. This new physician, I overheard him talking to his MA. And she seemed receptive to the conversation. This is what I see as the best solution: an MA who is trained, a doc who listens and re-directs, a doc who teaches without condescension; an MA who is willing to learn without being defensive.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med/surg,Tele,PACU,ER,ICU,LTAC,HH,Neuro.
I resent the fact that CMA'S are looked upon as cheap substitutes. I am very passionate about my job and the care my patients receive from me. I WILL NOT PERFORM SOMETHING THAT IS OUT OF MY POTENTIAL FOR A DR. OR ANYONE! And yes, I have been fired from jobs because of this. But you know what, I am the one that can lay my head down at night knowing that if that patient dies during the night, IT WILL NOT BE BECAUSE OF AN UNSKILLED PROCEDURE THAT I PERFORMED.

Also, not everyone has the opportunity to go straight into nursing school, working as a medical assistant is paying my way through nursing school now as I try to further my career. Also, If it were not for MA'S or CNA's. then that would be more work for you all to do, and give you all something else to gripe about.

I am very offended by the comment that we are cheap labor. If you know so much, then why did you stop at your nursing degree? Why did you not go on to become the DR?

There is a point difference right there. Medical Assistance assist doctors in the practice of medicine by performing clinical nursing proceedures. You may know the proceedure, but you don't have the critical thinking skills of licenced nurses to deal with all the what if's that occur with any proceedures(especially invasive ones). When you become a nurse you will see that nursing is nothing like medicine and you may understand why public health issues come into play with what we are witnessing. It is become clear I want to ask the state board of nursing what an MA is legally allowed to do. Surely they have some guidlines from the Medical Board.

It is not about who knows what or knowing so much. I am called to be a nurse. If I want to know more about my field I will strive to become a Doctor Of Nursing. Not a Doctor of Medicine.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
There is a point difference right there. Medical Assistance assist doctors in the practice of medicine by performing clinical nursing proceedures. You may know the proceedure, but you don't have the critical thinking skills of licenced nurses to deal with all the what if's that occur with any proceedures(especially invasive ones). When you become a nurse you will see that nursing is nothing like medicine and you may understand why public health issues come into play with what we are witnessing. It is become clear I want to ask the state board of nursing what an MA is legally allowed to do. Surely they have some guidlines from the Medical Board.

It is not about who knows what or knowing so much. I am called to be a nurse. If I want to know more about my field I will strive to become a Doctor Of Nursing. Not a Doctor of Medicine.

You said it ! MA's are doing some very scary things, It's not just vitals, it's starting IV's infusing meds, doing invasive procedures all under the supposed "watchful eyes of the DR". I am amazed at how the Dr's are OK with letting an MA do some of these things and never stop to think what it could mean for them (law suite wise). And, do Dr's really think that that is all nurses do anyway ? If so they've never had a nurse save their A** . If Dr's think this , than so does the public and if that's the case, shame on us for not standing up for ourselves !

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in OB, M/S, HH, Medical Imaging RN.
I had incredible MD mentors who taught me things that I didn't even learn in nursing school. I would have kept doing it if it wasn't for the fact that I was really limited to doctor's offices.

Just because you can do learn to do something, physically, does not make it safe. i.e. any man can be a father but it takes alot more than the sex act for a father to be a daddy.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med/surg,Tele,PACU,ER,ICU,LTAC,HH,Neuro.

If someone is telling the public who is seeking medical care that they are a nurse and they are not. It is your legal responsibility to report that individual to the State Board of Nursing.

The board would then petition their appearance before them and ask for their nursing credentials.

I doubt they would be fined ,but they certainly would be scared and probably restricted until finishing some college course.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med/surg,Tele,PACU,ER,ICU,LTAC,HH,Neuro.
1 I grew up in Fla.

2. I didnt become a nurse for the title or wanting to help people. I wanted to work in job, inside, out of the heat. With a bunch of good looking women. Im still married to one 30 yrs later.

3. Obviously Im a guy

4. I already stated that it doesnt threaten me if they call them selves nurses. I Know who and what I am.

We need to come together here.

Even the MA website "advertizes that MA's are professionals.

Lawyers have legally defined them as registered.

That makes them registered professionals in the eyes of the public.

http://www.amt1.com/site/files/315/15341/60000/55084/Lawful_scope_of_Practice.pdf

We don't even give LPNs the dignified title of professional , and a MA has only 8 months of training with no college degree. LPNs are not academically defined as professionals when deep down we know they are very professional.

We are asked in nursing school? Is nursing a professional position or not? We need to quit debating that and start making it clear that we know we are. If a patient had to put their health care in the hands of a MA or an RN/LPN . Who are they gonna pick?

Their state appointed advocate with a degree (LPN/RN), or their Doctor appointed certificate holding flunky?

Again I say, it is against state law to impersonate a licensed professional nurse with a college degree or a Licensed....nurse with an LPN Diploma, when what you really are is a "professional" registered certificate holder. How professional is that. I think it is criminal.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
We need to come together here.

Even the MA website "advertizes that MA's are professionals.

Lawyers have legally defined them as registered.

That makes them registered professionals in the eyes of the public.

http://www.amt1.com/site/files/315/15341/60000/55084/Lawful_scope_of_Practice.pdf

We don't even give LPNs the dignified title of professional , and a MA has only 8 months of training with no college degree. LPNs are not academically defined as professionals when deep down we know they are very professional.

We are asked in nursing school? Is nursing a professional position or not? We need to quit debating that and start making it clear that we know we are. If a patient had to put their health care in the hands of a MA or an RN/LPN . Who are they gonna pick?

Their state appointed advocate with a degree (LPN/RN), or their Doctor appointed certificate holding flunky?

Again I say, it is against state law to impersonate a licensed professional nurse with a college degree or a Licensed....nurse with an LPN Diploma, when what you really are is a "professional" registered certificate holder. How professional is that. I think it is criminal.

You are correct. If a MA or even PA introduced themself as the Dr. it would most likley be all over the 6:00 news. But let an MA call themself a nurse and no one including , it seems, many nurses. Like you said give the pt a choice, here is an RN. As a patient, I would choose an RN over an MA, or a Dr, over a pa. I went on line to the ma site, took the practice test, passed it soooo easily , have to say there were a few questions that I had to draw from my memory banks, but, it was not difficult. I would challange MA's to go on to a CCRN web site, pull off a practice test and try it. There-in-lyes the difference.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med/surg,Tele,PACU,ER,ICU,LTAC,HH,Neuro.
Dr's offices hire MA's because they can give us the responsibilities of a nurse and the money of a janitor. I agree, MA's are responsible for some amazing things. I am an MA, and the reason i give injections, draw blood, take x-rays, give patient test results, assist in medical procedures, call in Rx and can run an entire front office is because i was trained to do it. If i was told to do something i thought i couldnt do, I wouldnt. One great difference between myself and a Nurse is that they make 3 or 4 times more money than i do yet in a doctors office I am doing the same work. Being an MA doesnt mean you give out the wrong meds, and wrong information as some of these posts have stated. It shouldnt be "jaw dropping" or "scary". Rest assured if i didnt know how to draw blood or give injections, i wouldnt be running around poking people with needles.

What you are trained to do and what you are LICENSED opps I mean certified to do are two separate and not equal animal species. You can not practice nursing without a license so be sure you have it clear with your certifying agency what substances you can inject and how to respond to adverse effects cause you may be held accountable. I know a nurse IS.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med/surg,Tele,PACU,ER,ICU,LTAC,HH,Neuro.

Crystal,

Also You don't have the responsibilities of a nurse. Define it like skills not responsibilites. You don't know wwat my responsibilities are or you would be forced to have a license. Someone in a lot of pain over something you where not directly RESPONSIBILE for could snare you legally if you don't clearly define it. It is kind of a grey area so it is best to have a full understanding of it.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Nursing Ed, Ob/GYN, AD, LTC, Rehab.

I hear a lot of MA here saying they can do what a nurse can and that they do it safely etc. The problem is MA's do not know what they dont know. MA training is in no way any where close to a nurses education. Here in lies the danger.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Crystal,

That attitude is why so many people are scared of MA's. A lot of them think that because they have seen an MD do a procedure and have repeated that procedure themselves that they are trained. A BSN nurse goes through a MINIMUM of 4 years training. If she gets her ADN and then BSN, it's 5 years training. And not a-one of them will say that nursing school was just "peachy". Nursing school is very intense. Compare that to the 9-15 months of training most MA's have, and you can see a big difference. Nurses are trained not only in "drawing blood and giving meds" but also in critical thinking. In not only recognizing a situation and immediately knowing how to react to it, but also realizing a situation BEFORE it happens. Could you correct an MD if he gave you orders for a Rx that was OBVIOUSLY incorrect? Would you even notice it? This, among many other things, is what NURSES do. And the worst part is that MA's refer to themselves as nurses. I've actually had to ask several MA's if they were RN's or MA's after they reffered to themselves as the former. It is not a title to be taken lightly, and you do NOT have the qualifications or the education to be referring to yourself as such. To do so is presumptuous and rude to those that have sacrificed the years getting to that point.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Crystal,

The other thing you have to realize is the cockiness you are portraying. You will most likely say it is confidence, but it is not. It is sheer arrogance. It is honestly (no disrespect meant in this comment) like that of a 15 year old speaking to a 35 year old. You don't know what you don't know. You may think that, because you have experience certain things, you have a grasp on everything. Nurses EXPERIENCE this stuff first hand. And MA's tell them that "I do the same thing you do for less money". That statement in-and-of itself is belittling to the nursing profession. To say that you could get the training you need in one year that nurses take 4 years to aquire, and then (at minimum) 2-4 years of on the job before they REALLY grasp what they are doing...is just arrogant. And that, above all is what is scary.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion