Bad Delivery

nurturing_angel · Feb 15, 2005

Yes, I had a Bradley couple once that had basically the same demands....NO monitoring, NO IV's, No talking in the delivery room, NO male doctors or nurses in the room at any time, NO lights on during the delivery, NO pain medication at any time...don't even mention it to them regardless of how uncomfortable she may seem, NO interventions at all. I agree that parents should have a right to the birth they desire...barring complications. But why bother coming into a hospital setting if you are gonna be this strict. Thank God we had no complications. But this whole labor made me very uncomfortable.

Vickie

jrring1019 · Feb 15, 2005

HI, HAD A DELIVERY SEVERAL NIGHTS AGO THAT COULD HAVE BEEN A LOT WORSE THAN IT WAS FOR BOTH MOTHER AND BABY.....
NOT THAT I AM OPPOSED TO THE BRADLEY METHOD BUT THIS COUPLE WAS A LITTLE ON THE STRANGE SIDE FOR A HOSPITAL BIRTH. WANTED COMPLETE SILENCE DURING THE LABOR, TO ALLOW HER TO PUSH NATURALLY???????? I AM ASSUMING LABOR DOWN THE BABY AND PUSH AS THE URGE HITS INSTEAD OF NURSES AND DOCTORS YELLING PUSH, PUSH. SO TO GET TO THE DELIVERY IN THE PITCH BLACK, YES PITCH BLACK DOCTOR WOULD NOT ALLOW ANY NURSES TO TOUCH OR ASSESS THE BABY, MOTHER HAD A SEVERE PPH NEEDED SEVERAL LITERS OF FLUIDS WITH PITOCIN ADDED, 4TH DEGREE LACERATION. IF ALL THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED THE NURSERY NURSE WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN HER HANDS ON THE BABY UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE...COOL TO TOUCH DIAPHORETIC, BLOOD SUGAR OBTAINED AND IT WAS 37.......IE BABY TAKEN TO NURSERY AWAY FROM MOTHER NOT ONE OF THEIR WISHES IN THEIR BIRTH PLAN AND WAS DECIDED TO EITHER START AND IV OR GIVE IT GLUCOSE WATER FOR WHICH THE FATHER OBJECTED TO BUT HE DIDNT WANT IV EITHER .. LONG STORY SHORT, ANY OF YOU HAVE ANY LIKE THIS HAPPEN TO YOU? INCIDENT REPORTS FILED ON DOC AND LOTS OF DOCUMENTATION.:angryfire

I understand the part about her wanting silence and to birth with her own instincts. Usually we also have the lights very dim, but can see enough to assess and move about. Your hospital must have some sort of policy about assessing FHR, at least every 5 min during pushing, so I would have felt uncomfortable about that also. Sometimes the birth plans are rigid and not practical, but a good provider goes over the plan carefully so mom understands that some things may need to change as need arises. I think the doc was out of line not allowing for basic care after delivery, as if you would have been in the way or ruined her birth experience. A little prevention would have gone a long way here.

I don't know if anyone will agree, but it seems that a rigid birth plan is a jinx . Something always seems to go wrong.

BETSRN · Feb 15, 2005

HI, HAD A DELIVERY SEVERAL NIGHTS AGO THAT COULD HAVE BEEN A LOT WORSE THAN IT WAS FOR BOTH MOTHER AND BABY.....
NOT THAT I AM OPPOSED TO THE BRADLEY METHOD BUT THIS COUPLE WAS A LITTLE ON THE STRANGE SIDE FOR A HOSPITAL BIRTH. WANTED COMPLETE SILENCE DURING THE LABOR, TO ALLOW HER TO PUSH NATURALLY???????? I AM ASSUMING LABOR DOWN THE BABY AND PUSH AS THE URGE HITS INSTEAD OF NURSES AND DOCTORS YELLING PUSH, PUSH. SO TO GET TO THE DELIVERY IN THE PITCH BLACK, YES PITCH BLACK DOCTOR WOULD NOT ALLOW ANY NURSES TO TOUCH OR ASSESS THE BABY, MOTHER HAD A SEVERE PPH NEEDED SEVERAL LITERS OF FLUIDS WITH PITOCIN ADDED, 4TH DEGREE LACERATION. IF ALL THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED THE NURSERY NURSE WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN HER HANDS ON THE BABY UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE...COOL TO TOUCH DIAPHORETIC, BLOOD SUGAR OBTAINED AND IT WAS 37.......IE BABY TAKEN TO NURSERY AWAY FROM MOTHER NOT ONE OF THEIR WISHES IN THEIR BIRTH PLAN AND WAS DECIDED TO EITHER START AND IV OR GIVE IT GLUCOSE WATER FOR WHICH THE FATHER OBJECTED TO BUT HE DIDNT WANT IV EITHER .. LONG STORY SHORT, ANY OF YOU HAVE ANY LIKE THIS HAPPEN TO YOU? INCIDENT REPORTS FILED ON DOC AND LOTS OF DOCUMENTATION.:angryfire

If anyone is going to have this kind of problem, it is always a Bradley couple!! Some of those dads are the worst! However, I have had some nice Bradley couples as well. I think a lot depends on the particular Bradley instructor, however.

I did one of those deliver in the dark births once! I can relate! I am surprised the doc was as adament as he was. Most docs run from Bradley couples.

gladtobeOB · Feb 15, 2005

I Was Ordered To Get Fht Every 30 Minutes For 3o Seconds After A Contraction Then During Pushing Fht Every Other Contraction, A Bunch Of Bs. I Really Had No Problem Abidding By Their Wishes But The Darkness Made It Quite Difficult, And Then Afterwards All He??? Broke Loose. Which Leads To The Endless Discussion That All Laboring Mothers Should Have Iv Access. Another Problem With This Doc Is He Is Adament About Letting The Mother Hold The Baby For Up To An Hour After Its Is Born, If It Had Not Been For The Pph Nursery Nurse Would Not Have Been Able To Adequately See To Assess Baby, Was Actually Yelled At For Trying To Turn On The Kdc For It To Warm Up For The Initial Assessment. We Documented That Apgars Could Not Be Obtained And That Per Md Apgars 9,10. Sometimes I Think We Ought To Stick To Protocols And Standards And To Bad For The People That Get Upset For Us Doing Our Jobs Because Ultimately It Is Our License On The Line And Their Lives In Our Hands So We Ought To Stand Up To This Doc And Do Ours Jobs Regardless Of His Or Anyone Elses Wishes.

FutureNrse · Feb 15, 2005

Yes, I had a Bradley couple once that had basically the same demands....NO monitoring, NO IV's, No talking in the delivery room, NO male doctors or nurses in the room at any time, NO lights on during the delivery, NO pain medication at any time...don't even mention it to them regardless of how uncomfortable she may seem, NO interventions at all. I agree that parents should have a right to the birth they desire...barring complications. But why bother coming into a hospital setting if you are gonna be this strict. Thank God we had no complications. But this whole labor made me very uncomfortable.
Vickie

Well, we don't have a lot of choice really, we have to go to the hospital or risk being treated like whackos.

Although I wasn't using the Bradley method, I wanted to have my last child at home. I mentioned it to my OB and was told that doing a home birth is awful, dangerous, the worst thing in the world. So, I waited until the last minute to go to the hospital instead. I had no strange demands, only asked for as little intervention as possible and that they try to keep the number of staff in the room to a minimum. Well nothing went the way I wanted it to. They insisted that I have an IV, had the room full of staff just hanging around chatting. And they treated me rudely for wanting a home birth to begin with. The whole experience went from bad to worse after the birth when a nurse came in and told me that they'd found anti-depressants and barbituates in my urine. Now as this was total bulls%#t, I asked to be retested and they refused. Instead they said that they would test my sons urine to see if he had any drugs on board, and refused to allow us to leave. Wouldn't you know, my son was stubborn with the urine, and it took 8 hours for him to finally urinate, then as the nurse was removing the little urine baggie, she spilled it and said "oops, guess we'll have to wait for the next one" That was the last straw for me, and I told them that I was leaving. The threatened to call CPS (which was where I worked) and I threatened to call an attorney. They sent a social worker in, and thank goodness she could see that I was telling the truth. She ordered that my sample be retested, plus I asked her to have them take another sample just in case, and I took my son and left, signing out AMA.

I received a phone call next day from the social worker telling me that there had been a mix up and they managed to straighten it out in time to prevent the lady who had taken those drugs from leaving. She apologized and I let the matter the drop, but since then I have often wished that I had done something. I think that I should have sued. Not only did they ruin the birth for me, but the mix up and the way it was handled was criminal.

Trust me, many women would prefer a home birth, but there isn't much support for us. I'm sorry for what you go through though, with the demands that make your job even harder. It's difficult to find a balance between having the birth your way, and doing it safely.

Mimi2RN, ASN, RN · Feb 15, 2005

If you can't get your hands on the baby, you can't do the Apgar score. If the room is dark, you can't check the color, and neither can the doc. When the idiot parents ask for the Apgars, let the doc explain.

As long as the baby is crying, you can assume that it has a heartrate. If they want everything quiet, and don't stimulate the baby, you don't know!

I don't know why they bother coming in to the hospital at all.

I would start the Apgar timer at delivery as it would help with documentation.

BETSRN · Feb 15, 2005

HI, HAD A DELIVERY SEVERAL NIGHTS AGO THAT COULD HAVE BEEN A LOT WORSE THAN IT WAS FOR BOTH MOTHER AND BABY.....
NOT THAT I AM OPPOSED TO THE BRADLEY METHOD BUT THIS COUPLE WAS A LITTLE ON THE STRANGE SIDE FOR A HOSPITAL BIRTH. WANTED COMPLETE SILENCE DURING THE LABOR, TO ALLOW HER TO PUSH NATURALLY???????? I AM ASSUMING LABOR DOWN THE BABY AND PUSH AS THE URGE HITS INSTEAD OF NURSES AND DOCTORS YELLING PUSH, PUSH. SO TO GET TO THE DELIVERY IN THE PITCH BLACK, YES PITCH BLACK DOCTOR WOULD NOT ALLOW ANY NURSES TO TOUCH OR ASSESS THE BABY, MOTHER HAD A SEVERE PPH NEEDED SEVERAL LITERS OF FLUIDS WITH PITOCIN ADDED, 4TH DEGREE LACERATION. IF ALL THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED THE NURSERY NURSE WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN HER HANDS ON THE BABY UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE...COOL TO TOUCH DIAPHORETIC, BLOOD SUGAR OBTAINED AND IT WAS 37.......IE BABY TAKEN TO NURSERY AWAY FROM MOTHER NOT ONE OF THEIR WISHES IN THEIR BIRTH PLAN AND WAS DECIDED TO EITHER START AND IV OR GIVE IT GLUCOSE WATER FOR WHICH THE FATHER OBJECTED TO BUT HE DIDNT WANT IV EITHER .. LONG STORY SHORT, ANY OF YOU HAVE ANY LIKE THIS HAPPEN TO YOU? INCIDENT REPORTS FILED ON DOC AND LOTS OF DOCUMENTATION.:angryfire

You now, on rereading your post, I really feel that an incident report should be made out on this doctor, not to mention the situation. Now, I am all for natural and it can be accomplished without putting either the mother or the infant at risk.

Have you thought about going to the hospital's Risk Manager or the lawyer? This whole scenario should be written up and described in detail, while it is all fresh in your mind so that if anything ever does come of it for any of you, you ahve a written record.

Leda · Feb 15, 2005

Do these patients/couples sign a release of responsibility that prohibits them taking legal action against the hospital, nurses, etc. when the outcome is not as expected? Remember nurses your practice will be evaluated based on standards of practice and what a prudent nurse would do in the situation. Birthing in the dark and being unable to accurately evaluate baby and mother is unsafe by any definition.

I strongly support choice in childbearing but am very concerned that the situation described puts the nurses on very shaky legal grounds. Be careful nurses in this situation, be very careful.

ShannonC · Feb 15, 2005

Oh, that sounds like a very NOT fun delivery.

I admit it--I get nervous when I hear I have a Bradley patient. Not because of anything wrong with Bradley necessarily, but I just never know when I am going to accidentally offend someone. You know? I really like for people to have the kind of delivery they want to have, honestly, I do. It's not my birth, it's theirs. BUT, I do have some liability on the line when it comes to my license. I guess I don't understand why more Bradley patients don't deliver at home. Here's how I see it: they come to the hospital for a service, and that service is called labor and delivery. Please, give me your INPUT (ie I'd like low lights, no IV, put the baby on my chest right away), but on't tell me to change policies or do things that feeel unsafe. Okay, when I go to Burger King, I ask for no lettuce on my chicken sandwich, but do I insist they let me bring in my own cooking vat, tables and chairs, and that the cook ignore safety standards while doing his job? If I am THAT picky about the "product" I need to eat at home!

Vent over.

BETSRN · Feb 15, 2005

Well, we don't have a lot of choice really, we have to go to the hospital or risk being treated like whackos.
Although I wasn't using the Bradley method, I wanted to have my last child at home. I mentioned it to my OB and was told that doing a home birth is awful, dangerous, the worst thing in the world. So, I waited until the last minute to go to the hospital instead. I had no strange demands, only asked for as little intervention as possible and that they try to keep the number of staff in the room to a minimum. Well nothing went the way I wanted it to. They insisted that I have an IV, had the room full of staff just hanging around chatting. And they treated me rudely for wanting a home birth to begin with. The whole experience went from bad to worse after the birth when a nurse came in and told me that they'd found anti-depressants and barbituates in my urine. Now as this was total bulls%#t, I asked to be retested and they refused. Instead they said that they would test my sons urine to see if he had any drugs on board, and refused to allow us to leave. Wouldn't you know, my son was stubborn with the urine, and it took 8 hours for him to finally urinate, then as the nurse was removing the little urine baggie, she spilled it and said "oops, guess we'll have to wait for the next one" That was the last straw for me, and I told them that I was leaving. The threatened to call CPS (which was where I worked) and I threatened to call an attorney. They sent a social worker in, and thank goodness she could see that I was telling the truth. She ordered that my sample be retested, plus I asked her to have them take another sample just in case, and I took my son and left, signing out AMA.
I received a phone call next day from the social worker telling me that there had been a mix up and they managed to straighten it out in time to prevent the lady who had taken those drugs from leaving. She apologized and I let the matter the drop, but since then I have often wished that I had done something. I think that I should have sued. Not only did they ruin the birth for me, but the mix up and the way it was handled was criminal.
Trust me, many women would prefer a home birth, but there isn't much support for us. I'm sorry for what you go through though, with the demands that make your job even harder. It's difficult to find a balance between having the birth your way, and doing it safely.

Your story is horrible, and the treatment you received inexcusable. Although it matters not, there are many hospitals that would treat you (as a homebirth transfer) with kindness and respect (the way everyone is treated). We get HB transfers on occasion (because we are one of the few hospitals that has a positive relationship with some of the HB midwives in the area). The practice who will accept them asks that these candidates have at least ONE office visit with them to make sure all is a good fit. It is usually a positive experience and benefits everyone:most important the pregnant couple.

Those who choose HB have to realize, however, that not all HB transfers are easy to work with. Many are scared to death and as confrontational as anything, making it extremely difficult to please these people at all. Often when transfer has been necessary, more interventions are necessary (though not always) and it is difficult at best, when one of these couples comes in demanding that NOTHING be done.

That, on top of the fact that many HB transfers that facilities see are "train wrecks" or the result of an incompetent midwife doesn't help the HB cause at all.

Granted, it is unacceptable that HB transfers are treated poorly by staff. In all fairness, however, it must be stated that often hospital personnel are treated poorly by HB patinets for a myriad of reasons. Thus, the attitude that prevails many places. Don't forget that hospital people never get to see all those HB's that go right!

It is inexcusable that you were treated poorly. No matter how long it has been, I think a letter to the nurse manager of the unit where you had to deliver, as well as a letter to the hospital president is in order. Health care professionals need to be aware and accountable for their behaviors.

Montessori Mommy · Feb 15, 2005

Please don't let the Bradley label make you stereotype everyone who took the classes as crazy! My husband & I took Bradley classes and learned so much more about pregnancy & delivery than most of our friends who took Lamaze or other childbirth classes. A good Bradley instructor prepares parents for all the potential circumstances that can occur during delivery, and prepares them to make the necessary decisions. When I was told by my OB at 39 weeks that I had to be induced due to very high blood pressure, I knew that my health & the health of our baby was far more important than the detailed birth plan we had created.

Our Bradley instructor really placed the emphasis on education. She wanted us to know the difference between medically-necessary intervention, and intervention for the convenience of the OB. I think a well-informed patient would be much easier to care for than one who has no clue what is happening to them!

Yes - in Bradley classes we were encouraged to labor in a quiet, peaceful room. Relaxation is key to letting your body take its natural course during labor. At no time were we told that we had to deliver in a dark room, or deny our baby medically necessary treatment!

Beth