BA to MSN?

Megs7617 · Jul 18, 2005

hmmm...I would think so, but Im not positive. Thats a good question, because not all nurses have BSN's, and some have degrees in other areas. For example, I have a BA in Criminal Justice, and Im starting a diploma nursing program in August. After I complete the diploma program, I will have nursing knowledge, but for some reason I think that I would need an BSN before continuing on to a MSN, but again, I dont know for sure.

Fun2, BSN, RN · Jul 18, 2005

I think there is a bridge program you can do that "converts" your Bachelor's to a BSN. (not sure of exact details).

From there, you could do a BSN-MSN. I'm not sure if there is a bridge program to MSN. You'd just have to search around. (Maybe someone else will answer this that knows for sure!) good luck!

elkpark · Jul 18, 2005

Are you talking about a nurse who doesn't have a BSN, or someone entirely new to nursing?

For nurses (diploma or ADN) without BSNs, I know that Vanderbilt has had a program for non-BSN nurses to get a combined BSN and MSN. There may be similar programs at some other schools, but Vandy is the only one I personally know of.

There are quite a few programs out there now, generally referred to as "direct entry" programs, that allow (non-nurse) people with baccalaureate degrees in something other than nursing (even entirely unrelated to healthcare) to get an MSN in nursing. The programs include a year or more of "general" nursing, combined with the MSN program; some actually award a BSN degree along with the MSN, some don't (my grad school had a direct entry program in which the students took one (v. intense) year of general nursing and then took the two-year MSN program with the rest of us (traditional students) -- they finished with the same MSN that we did, but they did not also get a BSN in the process -- but, once you have an MSN, a BSN doesn't really matter). Of course, you still have to pass the NCLEX-RN, the licensure exam for RNs, and be licensed as an RN to be able to practice, regardless of your degree.

There are many, many options these days in nursing education; I'm sure that, if you look around, you will be able to find a program to meet your needs.

dettwiller5 · Jul 18, 2005

In the area that I live there are programs for an RN who has a bachelors degree in another field to go straight from a BS or BA to an MSN. I have a BS in HEalth Education and am going through an RN diploma program. After Iearn my liscence, I plan to go into an MSN program at a University. I'm sure that if you went on some college websites in your area that you would find similar courses of study.

Bobble · Jul 19, 2005

Go to http://www.allnursingschools.com and click on MSN Direct Entry Program. You have to be careful, however, because some don't give you a BSN and some hospitals/states for that matter require a BSN to practice. My primary care physician did the direct MSN entry program in Tennessee and she loved it. One year to get an RN and another year to get her Master's. Now she's my PCP!!! :)

Hi everyone. Here's a question I hope you can answer: Must a person with a bachelor's degree in something other than nursing complete a BSN before moving onto an MSN? Just curious!

mmm333, LVN · Oct 31, 2009

You are (or will soon be) what many of us are now calling ourselves- an RN who happens to have a BA.

Technically you could be a BARN or an RNBA (if you were an RN the got your BA).

In any case, we are a specific group of people within the nursing profession. Our BA is sometimes undervalued or derided by those who imagine that we think our BA entitles us to faster advancement in the profession. Most of the BAs themselves just think it makes them well-rounded and interesting as people. For example, an ADN nurse has a BA in Chinese Language and works in an area with a significant Chinese population... or has a degree in psychology-tell me those are not valuable! The BA allows them to pursue graduate level programs as long as they fulfill the nursing-area prereqs for that program.

The main area where BARNs should be asserting themselves is in their right to pursue graduate education. An accredited B-level degree in any other job on earth is the only prereq to grad education other than having the specific prerequisites for that progam. Even in medicine or law, no "pre-med" or "pre-law" degree is specifically required- just the prereqs. In fact, ANA/NLNA are recommending/hoping that in the future all nursing programs will start at the MSN-level (though for now it's basically impossible given the shortages).

The major misunderstanding among nurses is that many don't know that RN>MSN programs do have prerequisites which bring the BA up to BSN level: courses such as public health nursing, nursing research, advanced patho, physical assessment, etc. Most RN>MSN programs require 3-4 of these to start studying nursing at the graduate level. Plus RN>MSN degrees are often generalized MSNs not NP or CNS degrees, otherwise additional study time is required. In the end, BARNs earn their MSN just like any BSN>MSNs do. This "cluster" of prereqs to the RN>MSN programs may be called a "bridge", "cluster", "BA to BSN conversion"; they may comprise some sort of postgraduate certificate or may just be listed separately as prereqs for the RN>MSN.

The idea that people should have to gain a redundant degree in order to proceed is ridiculous and should be contested. As long as BARNs are up to snuff and take the courses they need, they will bring wonderful skill sets and interdisciplinary knowledge from other fields into the profession. I think there is also some subconscious fear that "other" ideas will be disruptive to the very specific "right way" of doing things in nursing. Also getting an ADN, BSN, or MSN is very hard, and sometimes those people don't want to see anyone get there by any other route than the way they did it. The fact is that to get from BA to RN is not a shortcut, it may be longer and harder and require far more units of study.

Another thing not to confuse is any of the following with one another

1) Entry MSN (you have some sort of bachelor's other than nursing BSN, and want to enter nursing at MSN)

2) RN>MSN (you are licensed RN with no bachelor's and want to get your MSN, probably get BSN along the way)

3) BARN>MSN (you have your license + a non-nursing BA/BS of some type and want to pursue MSN)

We are #3, not #2, and certainly not #1. So we will probably be able to get into one of these programs after taking 1-4 prereq courses that bring us up to the BSN level without actually doing the entire BSN, satisfying a bunch of goofy campus requirements (graduation requirement: one course in Scandanavian basketweaving, one course in MS-DOS programming, one course in foreign language other than the one your BA was in, etc.)

BARNs UNITE! :up:

RNMLIS · Nov 2, 2009

Yea! A BARN

I have had a dissapointing and bumpy start to my nursing career, no details plenty of rants elsewhere...

Yea! I am an RNMLIS Registered Nurse Masters in Librarian and Information Science.

Have worked as a corporate librarian in several international corporations(librarians are just as confused as nurses regarding their idenity and level of professional respect they receive but they don't dish out disrespect to their fellow librarians)

It is decision time - more school auurrrggghh!

it is either explore medical librarianship (time and skill sets lost will be tough)

back to school

$$$$ time getting old

This idea of BA,MLIS, ADN to Masters in Nursing

Is it possible can I do it

mmm333, LVN · Nov 2, 2009

First of all I think your post got cut off but I think you said you are an RN already with a non-nursing BA/Masters.

Sure, it's possible to do RN>MSN if you want to put yourself through it at whatever your age is. You might opt for an online program from the comfort of your home to avoid commuting and juggling with your work. You can probably even take it at a slower pace to accomodate your work and home life. I don't think most nurses do their MSN full-time (do they?).

It's the BA that matters for getting into an RN>MSN program. You can find a cheaper online program in one of the midwester/northern states, I think Wyoming has an online RN>MSN that is inexpensive and reputable.

On the other hand, I can understand the allure of diversifying your assets- being an RN and a Medical Librarian would be a great way to have "insurance" in case your back goes out or you are looking for something a little less intense than nursing as you get older (and wiser!). In this case you wouldn't have "all your eggs in one basket (in nursing)".

Finally, wouldn't it be sweet to be an [bA/RN/MLIS/MSN/Medical Librarian]? Maybe you can see if that's possible.

The real questions seem to be whether you are willing to leave full-time nursing and whether the payoff of an MSN is going to be worth the risk and the work. But if you don't do the MSN you should certainly do the medical librarian. Is another degree essential to being a medical librarian? Can you get the job without that degree or with an MSN in informatics?

Just to clarify my understanding for others who may be reading this thread:

Master's entry programs are basically = [an accelerated BSN + an MSN] and take three years rather than 2 for regular MSNs; and they charge you the higher graduate study rate for that first year even though it's basic/clinical stuff (maybe a little richer in theory) since it's at the graduate level. Someone with a Master's, no RN license, and good research and writing skills might consider the E-MSN route. But from what I understand you are an ADN/RN.

RN>MSN programs (only the ones for BARNs [or BSRNs]) bring the BA up to snuff with BSN in about one semester and then get into the MSN stuff and are usually engaged by ADN nurses with 1-3 years of experience under their belts. *it is important for BARNs to understand that in their situation the BA>BSN>MSN route might be a bad choice since the 2nd bachelor's is somewhat redundant and a BSN is not necessarily required by most MSN programs as long as they are "up to snuff" on public health, research, physical assessment, computers, theory etc. Generally doing 3-4 upper division courses in these areas is adequate without doing an entire BSN program on top of their BA, which is basically ridiculous. Years of experience go a long way in the applications process and also in bringing the BARN up on par with BSN-level (expert) practice.

You mentioned "$$$". ADN programs are the cheapest and some have a reputation of producing excellent novice nurses w/ clinical skills and are usually the cheapest route to the "RN".

Accelerated BSN programs can be expensive but less expensive in terms of time and opportunity cost. However they are "accelerated" and very difficult, and some folks complain of a bumpy career ride in their first 1-2 years after graduating because they haven't "grown into the role" or "absorbed the lingo" , or "unified theory with practice" in that short whirlwind year.

:twocents:

mistycal27 · Nov 4, 2009

Thanks for the excellent posts maximilian333! I have a BA in Biology and have been taking prerequisites to apply to nursing programs beginning next year. I eventually would like to get an MSN, but don't want to do the direct entry MSN because of the cost of tuition and I would also like to gain some work experience before deciding on a graduate program. Up to this point I have only been considering accelerated BSN programs because I thought that was my only choice (other than direct entry MSN), but they are pretty expensive too. I could save $30K by doing the ADN program at my local community college rather than doing the accelerated BSN.

Do you think that the quality of education is the same at the community college level as at the accelerated BSN level?

Thanks!

mmm333, LVN · Nov 4, 2009

Tough question, because it really depends on the school. There are good and bad community college programs just like there are good and bad BSN programs. The good thing is that the BRNs basically make sure that at least 80% of graduates of a given program pass the NCLEX first try. So none of them are really THAT bad. However there are some really nasty programs that have horrible teaching but relentlessly weed out the bottom-feeders until they achieve the numbers they need to survive as a program. Those programs can be brutal on the poor student, who is always worried about survival and loses sight of academic excellence just to focus on surviving their clinicals, etc.

Community colleges in general are poorly staffed and funded, but they somehow make it happen for their students.

Universities have a bit more funding in most but not all cases. Great instructors are what can really make a program work. There is one instructor in our program who has 100% devoted her life to nursing and some great clinical instructors. Some of them have scary reputations but I decided not to fear them and just roll with the punches and try to learn from whatever they throw at me. It's worked for me.

Community college ADN programs usually have a reputation for producing nurses with more clinical experience and know-how on the floor. BSN programs are generally richer in theory. Sometimes BSN grads have a tougher time adjusting to a floor. It's hard to say, really. Alot of it depends on you and your learning style as well.

Your biology background will be great preparation down the line. If you are waiting to get into a program consider taking pathophysiology and pharmacology if you haven't. Also consider Abnormal Psych and any class about child development or maternity/women's health. EMT classes can help get you in the right frame of mind and teach you a little physical assessment stuff. Good luck.

mmm333, LVN · May 10, 2010

People coming into nursing shouldn't jettison their past learning. The profession needs a fertile bed of interdisciplinary substance to draw ideas from and to complement practice and research.

Anyone with a BA in Criminal Justice, Legal Studies, Psychology, etc. who also has an RN license might make a great nurse within the prison system. The psychological and sociological factor is important in this setting.

An EMT or Paramedic background wouldn't hurt, either.