Attorney and PNAP

Coco16 · Oct 11, 2016

Hi,

Recently I was fired from my RN job stating that I was diverting medication and that I needed to contact a company called PNAP in order to keep my license. So I did in worrisome that I would lose my license and since then it's ended up being a nightmare! I did the recommended drug testing for my job (urine and blood) which was negative however when PNAP sent me to Greenbriar they did a hair test which showed "oxycodone and cocaine" which I had explained to them that I tried cocaine over Memorial Day weekend and that I was prescribed Percocet 5/325 for a back injury over 6 months ago but was not abusing it. Only took it when I was off and if I needed it. This is just terribly bad timing and of course it's biting me in the butt. I really don't have anyone to turn to for information or help! I have a lawyer but he's not a "nursing" specified lawyer. I am to the point where Greenbriar recommended that I have a problem because of the positive hair test and I have a hard time admitting to having a "substance abuse" disorder whenever I've treated people who have done so much worse and are in worse circumstances to having an abuse disorder. I see a lady at Greenbriar on Thursday this week for another evaluation to see what kind of "treatment" I need? PNAP said they would send me their contract but I do not feel comfortable signing a contract for 3 years of my life to be based on a "substance abuse" problem but however I don't want a mark on my license? Please if you have any advice I would greatly appreciate it!

Thank You

deltakappamu · Oct 14, 2016

Hi,
Recently I was fired from my RN job stating that I was diverting medication and that I needed to contact a company called PNAP in order to keep my license. So I did in worrisome that I would lose my license and since then it's ended up being a nightmare! I did the recommended drug testing for my job (urine and blood) which was negative however when PNAP sent me to Greenbriar they did a hair test which showed "oxycodone and cocaine" which I had explained to them that I tried cocaine over Memorial Day weekend and that I was prescribed Percocet 5/325 for a back injury over 6 months ago but was not abusing it. Only took it when I was off and if I needed it. This is just terribly bad timing and of course it's biting me in the butt. I really don't have anyone to turn to for information or help! I have a lawyer but he's not a "nursing" specified lawyer. I am to the point where Greenbriar recommended that I have a problem because of the positive hair test and I have a hard time admitting to having a "substance abuse" disorder whenever I've treated people who have done so much worse and are in worse circumstances to having an abuse disorder. I see a lady at Greenbriar on Thursday this week for another evaluation to see what kind of "treatment" I need? PNAP said they would send me their contract but I do not feel comfortable signing a contract for 3 years of my life to be based on a "substance abuse" problem but however I don't want a mark on my license? Please if you have any advice I would greatly appreciate it!
Thank You

Hi there. Sorry to hear of your troubles. You stated that you dont want to admit to having a substance use disorder, and thats ok, because addiction is a self diagnosed disease, however, I would like to point out that people who dont have substance abuse issues usually dont "try" cocaine over the weekend, and get fired for diverting. I am not trying to be be rude or mean, I just think you need to look at the situation a little more.

When I started going to 12 step meetings for my addiction, I would see people there with no teeth and people who have done way worse things than I have due to their disease and I would separate myself from them. I thought I was different. I was told early on that I needed to look at the similarities and not the differences. Everyones story is not the same. This is where ACCEPTANCE comes in. Again, I cannot tell you if you have substance abuse issues or not, but I think its something worth looking at.

I think this is really helpful reading:

https://www.na.org/admin/include/spaw2/uploads/pdf/litfiles/us_english/IP/EN3107.pdf

I am in a monitoring program for 5 years.. for something that occurred before I even went to nursing school. It is easy to look at others and think that they deserve to be in the program more than you, but I try to look at it as extra accountability. Look at it not as "I HAVE to do this," but rather "I GET to do this" to keep my license and continue doing what I love.

Good luck!

SororAKS, ADN, RN · Oct 15, 2016

Good advice thus far ^^^^^^^ but I might add that if you're not comfortable signing the contract, have a lawyer experienced with dealing with the Board of Nursing review it for you. Other lawyers are likely competent in their areas, but there's too much riding on this to have just any lawyer. You might greatly benefit from hiring one with direct BON experience and it could make a big difference in the outcome. Let us know how things go.

Vern4229 · Apr 25, 2017

I am just starting this process and it is breaking my heart. Working so hard to get my liscense only to let a back injury and eventual drugs ruin it. Noone understands if they haven't been here. I want to comply but am wondering if, once it is over, if I can obtain work anywhere or if I will go through all this and not be employable. I went into the methadone program "under the radar" in Dec 2015 and was doing well but needed to get off it to find work as nurses don't take kindly to that even though it is a federally protected program through the Americans with Disabilities Act. Long story short, I went on suboxone once I had a job and did not disclose this. Again, trying to fight this demon on my own. I used another substance and it showed when I was given a HPP drug test through work. I realized I needed to be in a counseling component and voluntarily did so. So I just recieved my paperwork telling me I have to 'give up' my RN until I see their counselors and they decide what is the best course for me. In reading the stipulations it appears I cannot work as a supervisor, in ICU, ED, Cath lab or anywhere that narcotics are administered regularly. I am not young-44 and am terrified of going through all this only to be stalled at the end. I live in a small town so positions are not easy to come by. TIA for listening. I try to talk with my husband about this and he doesn't understand. We are held to VERY high standards as practicing nurses-and I agree with this for patient safety is paramount-but in a profession where 1 out of 5 (according to PNAP) will develop a substance use disorder in their time as a nurse I feel they need to help rather than hurt us.

ChryssyD · Apr 26, 2017

Stevie,

You should definitely talk to a lawyer--never give up without a fight! That having been said, two things jump out at me from your posts. 1) You haven't had recent employment, so you don't have someone who can write to the Board about what a good, reliable, sober employee you have been--this is not good. And, 2) You have not one but two DUIs. One you can pass off as "I made a stupid mistake." Two, uh-uh. Very not good.

The Board does not have to prove that you have a substance abuse problem. They only have to show that you may have one--it's up to you to prove them wrong. Which will be expensive and annoying, but which is very do-able if you don't, in fact, have a problem. I gave up all alcohol for 5 years, and I love beer, shrimp scampi, and chicken marsala. You can do it. Good luck, and keep us posted.

ChryssyD · Apr 26, 2017

I am just starting this process and it is breaking my heart. Working so hard to get my liscense only to let a back injury and eventual drugs ruin it. Noone understands if they haven't been here. I want to comply but am wondering if, once it is over, if I can obtain work anywhere or if I will go through all this and not be employable. I went into the methadone program "under the radar" in Dec 2015 and was doing well but needed to get off it to find work as nurses don't take kindly to that even though it is a federally protected program through the Americans with Disabilities Act. Long story short, I went on suboxone once I had a job and did not disclose this. Again, trying to fight this demon on my own. I used another substance and it showed when I was given a HPP drug test through work. I realized I needed to be in a counseling component and voluntarily did so. So I just recieved my paperwork telling me I have to 'give up' my RN until I see their counselors and they decide what is the best course for me. In reading the stipulations it appears I cannot work as a supervisor, in ICU, ED, Cath lab or anywhere that narcotics are administered regularly. I am not young-44 and am terrified of going through all this only to be stalled at the end. I live in a small town so positions are not easy to come by. TIA for listening. I try to talk with my husband about this and he doesn't understand. We are held to VERY high standards as practicing nurses-and I agree with this for patient safety is paramount-but in a profession where 1 out of 5 (according to PNAP) will develop a substance use disorder in their time as a nurse I feel they need to help rather than hurt us.

First, lots of people on this thread understand. We've been there and done that, and it's worked out great for a lot of us. So there's no reason it can't work out great for you!

I was 40 when I started the monitoring thing, so I feel you--but you also have more life experience, and probably more professional experience, when you're older, and that can be a useful selling point. Remember that for later. For now, concentrate on the next step, remember to breathe, and know that even the most awful things can be turned into positives with the right attitude (I know it isn't always easy to have that attitude, but keep trying--practice makes perfect).

Best wishes :)

Vern4229 · Apr 26, 2017

Thank you so much :) That is why I reachd out here. I have 10 years of nursing experience. I was addicted to meth 25 years ago-moved from AZ to PA and got off of drugs for over 12 years. While working as a server I realized that there was so much more I could do to help others now that I helped myself. I will never forget going through the Drug and Alcohol component of school and telling the group "I was an addict and now I was doing great and in nursing school" story when one of the counselors said to me, "I would be VERY cautious in becoming a nurse." I was PISSED! How dare she squash my dreams kind of thoughts. WELL, what I know NOW makes her statement so true. The back injury led me to pain medications and unfortunately(like most will understand) they don't make me sleepy-just the opposite. I was able to WORK again! Care for my patients without acute pain. But that led me back down the rabbit hole and it is so.much.worse. Opiate addiction is unlike anything IMHO. Especially with a back injury. After being OFF the meds for a while now I realize that my back is so much better now that I am not doing things to exacerbate it due to taking pain meds. I am scared but know that means it is time for a change. Today I am sober. I am not worrying about tomorrow. Thanks All

RN90210 · Jun 7, 2017

Hi! Reading your advice to the original poster was so very helpful for a situation I am currently dealing with. One question-- I am from the Philly area and was referred to 2 places for my initial assessment. I have an idea as to what you are saying, I had the very same thought. Would you mind messaging me with additional info on choosing the person to perform the initial assessment? Thanks so much in advance!

RN90210 · Jun 7, 2017

I think I heard of holy spirit or Pinnacle health (in Harrisburg) that is more lenient and it seems as though the larger hospitals are more willing to grant a second chance. Pittsburgh, I honestly have no idea, as I'm nowhere close to that area. I've also heard dialysis is usually a safe bet, as there seems to be less exposure to controlled substances. Sorry I can't really help more, but I'm sure somebody else will know a bit more than me, in regards to employers that are more likely to give a chance quicker.
You could always google pro bono or low income attorneys as well. And, not that I've ever done it, but I know I've heard of websites, that professionals will chat online with you. Again, I never used that, but it can't hurt, right? I believe most of the sites show you the professionals' credentials, to verify they aren't just a bored person having fun with you.
Also, I'm sure they wouldn't be nearly as good as a privately hired attorney, but a public defender might be a possibility. However, I'm not sure if they are only available for certain types of cases, or if you are arrested/actually charged. But, I assume with the DUI's, that is being charged, right? If you had an attorney for either of those instances, would he/she be willing to chat with you?
If you're closer to Pittsburgh, are there not as many attorneys there, that would have expertise in this area? Or, do you have to go to the area where the DUI's occurred? (again, it seems the bigger cities seem to be swarming with them; I'm in a bit more of a rural area) Sorry, I'm asking more questions than offering answers, I'm just new to all of this stuff. I guess that's a good thing!
And, after re-reading your original post, maybe PNAP just needs you to be evaluated for a substance issue and if you can show that doctor proof of rehab, AA or whatever, maybe they would actually see you don't have an issue and PNAP would not place restrictions on your license. (I feel that's a little wishful thinking though, because they only utilize certain practitioners for those evaluations, and I'm wondering if I know who that is, if you mentioned philly...)
Hi! Reading your advice to the original poster was so very helpful for a situation I am currently dealing with. One question-- I am from the Philly area and was referred to 2 places for my initial assessment. I have an idea as to what you are saying, I had the very same thought. Would you mind messaging me with additional info on choosing the person to perform the initial assessment? Thanks so much in advance!

crazin01 · Jun 8, 2017

(You have to have 15 posts, before being able to message privately.)

I can't really give any feedback for whom to chose, why etc. I never had a evaluation with a addictionologist (I know that's not spelled correctly).

Have you tried googling the names & key points? ("Dr. John Doe" Philadelphia, PA PNAP feedback) along those lines. It can be time-consuming to read through the search results, but you could find random pieces of info that could be beneficial to you.

Sorry I can't offer more info. Perhaps others can give feedback...