Atheist or Agnostic?

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I know, I know, you're never supposed to talk about religion or politics, right....

I'm really not trying to start a religious debate, but just get a sense of where people are at. I'm a first year student and an atheist, yet all my fellow students and the nurses I'm meeting are believers.

If and when I become an atheist nurse, am I going to find myself a fish out of water?

Inevitably, someone will also post a "I hope you find god's love" post (or, alternately, a "You're all going to h-e-double- hocheysticks post"), but when a non theist replies "Well, I hope you find reason! ", they get insulted.

i am very much a believer and it rubs me the wrong way when someone starts preaching God. why can't we just be content feeling quietly comforted and not feel compelled to rub God/no God in one's face?

leslie

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
yep, i agree with you - but there have been posts like that on both sides and one just this morning. . . . . .

"almost 400 years ago, my ancestors came to this shore seeking religious freedom, and they are probably spinning in their collective graves if they only knew. i consider myself an atheist. i have explored other religions, and i have made my evidence-based decision. (emphasis mine).

as a new nurse in a very religious corner of the usa, i would feel very out of place praying with patients or family. i would probably send for clergy, if needed. i don't believe that prayer should be part of my job description. i am very respectful of their wishes. if they or their family want to see the minister, i will arrange that.

for those of you who who are questioning your beliefs, i suggest that you believe in your own common sense and intelligence (again, emphasis mine). take responsibility for your own actions and credit for your own achievements."

we all see things from our own perspective though - what one person see's as productive can seem counterproductive to others. i still think, as roy and others have mentioned, this is a pretty darn decent thread.

steph

i don't see this as counterproductive. i really don't. i think the religious will disagree with this, but that does not make it offensive either. isn't it interesting that the faithful can speak so much about what they believe and how they wish for others to? but if an atheist or agnostic says what their beliefs are, and their wishes for others, suddenly it's not acceptable?

regarding the red highlighted "evidence-based decision"...why would that be antagonistic? the religious, particularly the literalists or fundamentalists choose to believe based upon faith. not evidence. that is a fact. it is not an insult. as an agnostic, i choose to only believe ideas backed up with evidence. so i do not exercise faith. if you had evidence you wouldn't need faith.

as far as the red highlighted "common sense and intelligence" i can see how that might be perceived as a bit antagonistic. i agree with the statement though. the poster said "i suggest" which is similar to other posters saying "i hope you find...god."

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.

I botched my point a few pages back regarding intelligence and religiosity. The same correlation is found with levels of education and religiosity. The more education one has, the less religious one is, on average. The less education one has, the more religious one is, on average. It is a spectrum. The more fundamentalist one is, the less education, on average. Of course I am referring to group averages here, not individuals. It would be incorrect to make any particular assumption about an individual. That was my point in my reference to my mother (fundamentalist Southern Baptist) and her higher IQ than me (agnostic leaning a bit towards atheism Unitarian). According to the group averages, I should have a higher IQ than mom. Not true.

There is quite a bit of multicollinearity (predictor variables highly correlated) between intelligence and education. One cannot raise her IQ much, but one can directly control her education. Raised as a fundamentalist Southern Baptist in that insular world, it never occured to me that our viewpoints were based upon faith and not scholarly evidence. As I got older, as a teen I started noticing how parents did not want their children to go to secular universities. I began wondering, why would they be threatened by the scholars? I also started looking around at my mega church of hundreds of members and I noticed that none were college professors or highly educated except for one MD and a couple of lawyers. Contrast that to when I went to a friend's church (not fundamentalist) and I saw many of the university professors in our mid-size town there. Many other educated folks too.

The other day I mentioned to my mother that my biology professor neglected to bring up evolution, despite evolutional biology as applied to cytology/virology being on the syllabus. She said to me "he probably didn't believe in evolution." She really believed that a secular university biology professor may just not believe in evolution. I find this astounding. It shows that the fundamentalists have not been directly challenged, usually out of religious sensitivity. That leaves them with the impression that their viewpoints are accepted more than they are. Astounding.

Anyway, the more educated I have become, the less religious I have become. My point in bringing up intelligence/education was that some may need a nudge to begin the journey I did years back. To explore human history/religion/mythology/sociology/anthropology like I did and think the unthinkable. It honestly did not occur to me years and years ago, as a fundamentalist, that fundamentalism is not an educated position. I will stand by that statement.

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Question for the Catholic believers:

If you have children... lets say boys... How many of you would let them be an Altar Boy?

And what does the Pope does to prevent the abuse?

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Question for the Catholic believers:

If you have children... lets say boys... How many of you would let them be an Altar Boy?

And what does the Pope does to prevent the abuse?

oh give me a break.

would you please clarify on what you're really asking???

i know you wouldn't be condemning an entire religion based on the perverted actions of some.......now that wouldn't be fair, would it???

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multi,

good post. i understand what you're saying. but still, it's no surprise. even with the links you provided before, they were comprised of those with a scientific curiosity. it would stand to reason that those who have questions, will seek to learn the answers, aka, education. but being educated is not synonymous with being intelligent. and people of faith aren't necessarily uneducated. it's just that they haven't sought out all the sciences to explain the beginning of mankind and all related phenomena. that's not to say they don't have college educations in other majors. so it still seems a bit biased. but again, i appreciate what you wrote as it contained alot of forethought.

leslie

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Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
oh give me a break.

would you please clarify on what you're really asking???

i know you wouldn't be condemning an entire religion based on the perverted actions of some.......now that wouldn't be fair, would it???

The question about the Pope is a fair one, IMHO. Let's not forget that the reason the scandals grew was that for so long, the upper echelon of the Church was covering up and protecting the actions of ''the few''. So while it may not be fair to condemn the religion, it certainly isn't unrealistic to ask what steps are in place to make sure this doesn't happen again.

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
multi,

good post. i understand what you're saying. but still, it's no surprise. even with the links you provided before, they were comprised of those with a scientific curiosity. it would stand to reason that those who have questions, will seek to learn the answers, aka, education. but being educated is not synonymous with being intelligent. and people of faith aren't necessarily uneducated. it's just that they haven't sought out all the sciences to explain the beginning of mankind and all related phenomena. that's not to say they don't have college educations in other majors. so it still seems a bit biased. but again, i appreciate what you wrote as it contained alot of forethought.

leslie

Leslie, thank you. I botched my earlier explanations. I was studying for several exams this week - sleep deprived - and was being harrassed by my fundy relatives. So occasionally I take out my irritation in the virtual world because I'm far too polite and sweet to do it in person.:uhoh3:

Regarding the link I provided, if you scroll down, you'll see that not all the studies were done with just scientists. Some were strait GPA and SAT scores of ALL students separated by religion.

Thank you for pointing out that education is not synonymous with intelligence. There are always exceptions. Groups v. individuals, you know. We probably all know an idiot with a Ph.D and a genius who never set foot in college. But still, there are significant trends.

My favorite professor was Joseph Campbell. He was enrolled in a doctorate program as a student and dropped out. He decided to go live in the woods and read hundreds (if not thousands) of books relating to mythology and religion in human history. He was an autodidact (self teacher).

Remember, I have literally no beef with the religious who are not fundamentalists. My beef is with the fundamentalists.

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The question about the Pope is a fair one, IMHO. Let's not forget that the reason the scandals grew was that for so long, the upper echelon of the Church was covering up and protecting the actions of ''the few''. So while it may not be fair to condemn the religion, it certainly isn't unrealistic to ask what steps are in place to make sure this doesn't happen again.

i agree: it is a fair question. i suppose the op would have to write the Papacy.

yet the tone of this thread seems to be escalating contemptuously. to infer that all priests are child molesters is mind boggling. and we, as a nation were outraged at the mass coverup of all involved. that was not an act of God. and sometimes i wonder if some people don't get that confused with acts of man. man and his mistakes, permeate every sect. it is not exclusive. there is sin amongst all religions. none of us is beyond reproach.

think i'll take a breather.....until the next time my adrenaline pumps.

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Specializes in ER/Trauma.
Technically, that wasn't the choice.

There were two trees of note in the Garden. One was the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which they partook.

~faith,

Timothy.

Always knew I could count on you for an interesting post :)

I knew about the "technical" aspects of it Timothy - but not to be splitting hairs - but doesn't it all boil down to -- having knowledge or being ignorant of it?

I can understand that the "knowledge Vs Immortality" thing might be seen as a bit of a stretch - but that's what it ended up being anyway, right?

Either this presages Jesus centuries before the NT, or, this says something completely different than our understanding of God.
I think I know what you're saying but would appreciate it if you could clarrify...

cheers,

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Yep, I agree with you - but there have been posts like that on both sides and one just this morning. . . . . .

steph

Agreed. But the point being this thread was started by an agnostic/atheist, not someone struggling with their spirituality asking for redemption.

But yes, both sides have antagonized the other, and it's important to acknowledge that. We come from our own perspectives on things. For instance Timothy was insulted by a thread that didn't bother me iat all, and I've been a bit insulted by some of the ones you've supported.

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Specializes in ER/Trauma.

Well,

On topics like these there is bound to be a certain bit of consternation. Personal beliefs are often very dear and it is somewhat difficult to view them objectively. I know I have to constantly remind myself about that very fact.

Which is what I meant when I posted that "Faith is a very powerful thing"... and by faith I mean not just the religious kind. As Col. Charlie Beckwith would say "We aren't making cornflakes here".

But so long as there is no overt malice towards a poster in itself, discussion ought to be valid. And while we are participating, let us all just remember that a discussion is all it is - not a trial in a courtroom ;)

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