atheism religion and religious hospitals

[CalicoKitty]

I am an atheist. I work in a non-religious hospital. I like what I do, but there are 2 closer hospitals to me that are both religious. One Adventist and one Catholic. I really don't know how I'd feel working at a religious based hospital, since I feel that somehow I'd be "supporting" the religion. Is there a way of just thinking of it as a "job" without the ethical dilemma of working at a place that supports differing religious beliefs? (Not just geared towards atheists, but I know there are a lot of religions and the employees of various hospitals may not be working with the same one they believe in?) I also work in an area with a good amount of other beliefs like Jewish and Muslims.

So, more I'm asking how do you justify to yourselves working in a place with different spiritual values, or would you avoid that from an ethical standpoint.

(I really could go for a job 3 miles from home, I mean, I could walk it!). Just having a hard time wrapping my heart around it.

[Ellie G]

I do have a funny story about catholic hospital though. One day, the elevator door opened and the only thing in there was a statue of St. Anthony. You can imagine my surprise. Apparently one of its fingers was broken and it was being taken for repair. The person moving it set it down in the elevator and the doors closed before he could get himself in. He ended up calling elevators for some time to get the right one to his floor and quite a few people reported a statue alone on the elvator

[Maevish, ASN, RN]

I am curious,

So my current catholic based hospital broadcasts a morning and evening prayer to each pt room over an intercom system. However, this hospital cares for a largely diverse population not only ethnically but religiously. Christians, Muslims, atheists and other spiritual or faith based practices.

With all that being said, would any of you consider this inappropriate? Like I definitely understand advocating for a patient to incorporate faith based care, but only if that is what they want.

I understand the good intentions but I'm also a little petty sometimes

Thoughts?

Nope, not inappropriate at all! The people who work there and who walk in of their own free will know this is a Catholic hospital and they should expect what they get as far as religious things. If someone wakes up from a coma and they didn't know they were brought to the hospital to begin with, then that's extra motivation for them to get well and get outta there

What you're all there for (either nursing care or a job) is the same there as it would be at another hospital, so deal with it or move along.

xo

[CanadianAbroad]

I work for a Catholic hospital and I actually practice Witchcraft. The hospital does prayer twice daily on the overhead pager system. I generally tune it out. I have yet to run into an issue where faith has made me feel uncomfortable at work. Faith is part of holistic health, and if it helps the patient heal, I am all for it. If a patient wants to pray, I hold their hand in prayer; it isn't about me believing, and is all about them in that moment. Morally, if I am helping my patient to feel better and comfortable, then I am

doing my job and doing it well. At the end of the day, it is and always will be about them. I

can go home and practice my own faith and not feel shame for it.

[Channabanana]

Im not religious per se but i am spiritual and Im curious to know, unless the religious hospital demanded something like you have to wear a cross or star of david or hijab, how this would effect you directly. As a nurse, have a duty to your patients. Their religion or the religion of the hospital has nothing to do with that. Hearing a prayer or 2 min devotion wont kill you. Most prayers, unless about someone or something specific, are praying for health, wealth, and blessings. I believe everbody wants to be healthy, rich to their desire, and have good things happen to them (blessings). Unless a patient told you, at a non religious hospital, you wouldnt know their faith or beliefs and you would have to treat the pt anyway. If the job or pt doesnt ask something of you that isnt directly related to your job, you should be ok.

Oan: most of the hospitals and facilities here are jewish. Nobody complains that everything is kept kosher, that the elevators operate on their own on sabbath, that certain places are closed on jewish holidays; everybody just moves on accordingly.

[Maevish, ASN, RN]

This topic is not debating one belief over another, MidLifeRN2012.

Not trying to call the pot kettle but you stated "In society "YOU PEOPLE" are more guilty of shoving your ideology down the throats of christians"- then you proceed to tell me i'm afraid of the truth because i'm an atheist?

I'm sure I, along with the OP, and other commenters came to this topic to civilly discuss this with and open mind and an open heart.

Honestly i find your comment very upsetting and unsympathetic. I have never once tried to shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. In fact, probably a few very close friends and my boyfriend know of my religious beliefs, because i'm honestly fearful and ridicule and judgement from others.

That being said, i have prayed with a patient or their family, if that is what THEY want. I will incorporate the faith based care the the client wishes, because it is not about me at that moment, it is about them.

I hope you don't treat your patients with the kind of attitude you just expressed online.

It's that "Facebook-type courage", hopefully:sarcastic:

[CalicoKitty, BSN, MSN, RN]

There are plenty of Muslims and Jews who work at my Catholic Hospital. No religious requirements here. In society you people are more guilty of shoving your ideology down the throats of Christians than vice versa. I don't know why you atheists are so afraid to hear the word of God. What are you afraid of ? The Truth?

(this may be offensive to some, sorry)

The Truth: The people that complied pieces of paper from various scraps, translated them, translated them from translations, etc, picked and chose which of the pieces fit into their world at the time (Kings, no less) is not the word of a god that doesn't exist. It's a compilations of stories, written down by men, to explain things they didn't understand, just like most cultures have origin stories. It can't be the word of a god, since there is no such thing.

I'm afraid for the people that are harmed by human's interpretations of these stories. I'm afraid for the kids that commit suicide after being shunned by family and friends for not being heterosexual, or for being victims of rape. I'm afraid for the people shut out of their partner's deathbed rooms, leaving 2 aching hearts. I'm afraid for the families thrown off of airplanes because they don't believe in the same version of the same storybook (or maybe they do, but they are brown). I'm afraid for the 13 year old rape victims carrying an unwanted child that can kill them or render them infertile later. I'm afraid for the kids that need foster/adoptive homes but people decided that gay couples are less worried because other people's kids (and families) may be bullies to them. I'm afraid of people at end of life, suffering great pain, but denied pain relief because it may "hasten death". I'm afraid for people that are currently getting assaulted in bathrooms for not looking male/female enough (or too much). I'm afraid for the little girls that get molested and raped, and then are told they are soiled because they aren't virgins - since that's the only worth they have.

What I'm afraid of is supporting a religious organization that is lobbying politicians that will keep my fears alive.

People praying? No problem. If it gives someone relief, so be it. People hurting other people because their book supposedly tells them to. Problem.

[CalicoKitty, BSN, MSN, RN]

To me, I'd ask the same questions before taking a job at a religious hospital as I would any other hospital. As long as the staffing is decent, the pay and benefits comparable, patient outcomes good, etc I wouldn't have a problem. I mean, unless you're talking about some off-the-wall religion that expected you to participate in sacrificing kittens in the lobby before report, their religious beliefs shouldn't affect you one way or the other. I doubt they'd be worse than some of the corporate beliefs we're supposed to suck up to in non-religious hospitals.

I think this I can pretty much see. My current hospital is in one of those big corporate names.

[CalicoKitty, BSN, MSN, RN]

Good point. It would certainly raise ethical concerns to work someplace that forced or denied certain medical interventions based on their particular religion's rules.

I would definitely have ethical qualms about working on a Gyn or Ob service in a Catholic hospital. But I'm a post-menopausal medical/LTC/hospice nurse. I would be looking at factors that would directly control my practice as a nurse: end-of-life practices, mostly. Do they use religion as a justification to override advance directives? Would they treaty married domestic partners or a civilly married gay couple and their children as a family? How do they handle ending life prolonging meds or artitificial feeding at the end of life? How does the facility treat the patient who needs and has chosen care that the facility won't provide due to religious values?

I don't think there's a blanket right answer, except that any ethical conflict would depend on the policies and the real-world behavior of a specific facility.

This is part of it. I am currently in geriatrics (and love it), but got into nursing because of hospice care. End of life care, and the patient's right to autonomy, is important to me. I have a fear of being kept with a beating heart and a bunch of tubes in me, with no expectations of recovery. I'm hoping to move to ICU sooner or later, where I'm sure it will be a much bigger issue.

[klone, MSN, RN]

I work in women's health, and I cannot work for a faith-based organization that would prohibit me from discussing contraception and abortion options with women.

[kalycat, BSN, RN]

This is part of it. I am currently in geriatrics (and love it), but got into nursing because of hospice care. End of life care, and the patient's right to autonomy, is important to me. I have a fear of being kept with a beating heart and a bunch of tubes in me, with no expectations of recovery. I'm hoping to move to ICU sooner or later, where I'm sure it will be a much bigger issue.

Hey Pola - just my experience, but I work for a faith-based system. I'm very passionate about end of life issues and have recently been dealing with some very sticky ethical dilemmas on my unit (end of life care for patients with no accessible family). In my experience, we staff cases to the ethics committee appropriately, have excellent palliative care and hospice services in house, and management is unfailingly supportive of patient autonomy and advanced directives. They're even pushing for a greater number of nurses to receive continuing education in palliative care and end of life comfort measures.

Now, like anywhere, there are docs who fight like hell to put a VAD in anyone, prolong suffering, carry on when meaningful recovery is impossible. But in my experience, I see that everywhere. We are a very ethnically and spiritually diverse organization/teaching hospital and I think overall, the culture is good. I see a lot of compassion and true thought in the decisions that come down from the ethics and transplant teams, so I have no complaints. I personally am agnostic and am pretty sensitive to any whiff of indoctrination.

We do have a daily reflection but honestly... It happens at shift change over the PA. I'm too busy trying to hand off to notice much! I hope that helps a little. But I imagine every system has different practices...

[heron, ASN, RN]

Not offensive, particularly, but kind of beside the point ... I'm still not getting how collecting a paycheck by itself equals support. It all depends on what you have to do to earn that paycheck.

Again, I think it's worth asking whether the particular religious organization running the facility has policies derived from religious beliefs that would control your own nursing practice in ways you find unethical. As we've seen, such policies are far from universal.

ETA: Oops - thought I hit the quote button! This is a reply to the OP's post above #29

[CalicoKitty, BSN, MSN, RN]

I appreciate people's comments and introspection. For the record, it isn't the prayer/daily reflections stuff that is bothersome. It really is just trying to sort out the ethics of working for a company (religious organization) that goes against many of my deeply held moral beliefs.

I really liked someone's point that working for a religious hospital really isn't going to be significantly different than working for any other corporate hospital (which mine is).

I've been generally lucky that I haven't had to deal with too many ethical issues. (I really hate sticking NG tubes in terminally ill patients that keep ripping them out, necessitating restraints that don't work anyway). I really wish more people had advanced directives, and, as part of all hospital admissions, I try to at least encourage people to talk with social work or their families about them. I wish more people understood about code status, and how even if we (geriatric, medicine) resuscitate someone, chances are they will still die in a few days, just won't be awake in the ICU.