Associate Degree program a thing of the past...

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I am graduating in 3 weeks and just found out a few hospitals (magnet + tgh) will NOT be hiring AS degree RN's starting in Jan 2012. They have a new policy in place that requires all RN's to have a BS by 2018. That part is okay b/c I plan to get a BS degree by then. The part that has me freaking out is the fact they won't be hiring AS as of Jan. 2011. This makes me think the surrounding hospitals will follow suite very soon. I still plan to apply everywhere I can but just want to give people a heads up who have AS degrees and still looking for jobs and/or in school. --- Tampa,Fl area.

Specializes in School Nursing.

I wonder how much of it isn't just about magnet status- but also because they no longer want to pay ADNs to get their BSN 'in ten' like they've been doing? I mean, rather than pay for that they just require one already has it.. they don't have to pay more for a BSN nurse hourly, and they save thousands not paying tuition.

It's sad that all the fringe benefits jobs once offered (in all arenas) are no longer being offered.

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Specializes in Hopefully ICU one of these days..

has anyone considered that hospitals are more apt to hire a BSN nurse as opposed to an ADN nurse due to the fact that they don't want to pay for all of the ADN nurses to finish a BSN and then pay them more when they do when they could just cut out a huge amount of cost by only hiring BSN nurses who have paid their own tuition? I am in an ADN program and intend to finish my BSN as soon as my future employer will pay for it and from the looks of it that seems to be a national trend. I was also in business before going back to nursing school and I would have suggested cutting costs by not hiring ADNs who were going to milk tuition out of the hospital for their BSN. I am sure this saves millions for large healthcare corporations like Kiaser Permanente

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Is that including your clinical hours? I'm speaking direct college course credit hours for degrees- not including clinicals.. S if you're adding 40 hours of clinicals the BSN would be roughly 160 hours.

Anyway you look at it, a BSN is going to require sometimes double the coursework..

No, that's coursework.

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Specializes in School Nursing.

I'd be ******, without a doubt.. I normal B.S. degree is only 10 or so hours more than your associate's degree program. Do you mind if I ask where you're going to school?

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Specializes in TELE, CVU, ICU.

It doesn't matter where you go to school. The amount of coursework required for an ADN is roughly equivalent to a generic Baccalaureate degree. Meanwhile, a BSN can be had with less investment in time, albeit not tuition. When I went back for my BSN they accepted only a fraction of my transferable coursework, this is because they require a minimum number of units to be completed at the University. Meanwhile, someone who doesn't go the ADN route can obtain an Accelerated BSN in a couple of years online. The ADN also requires more clinical time. The "upper division" courses I took at the University were simply a rehash of the courses I already had at Community College. The only difference were that they cost more. Would you like me to send you my official transcripts?

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Specializes in School Nursing.
It doesn't matter where you go to school. The amount of coursework required for an ADN is roughly equivalent to a generic Baccalaureate degree. Meanwhile, a BSN can be had with less investment in time, albeit not tuition. When I went back for my BSN they accepted only a fraction of my transferable coursework, this is because they require a minimum number of units to be completed at the University. Meanwhile, someone who doesn't go the ADN route can obtain an accelerated BSN in a couple of years online. The ADN also requires more clinical time. The "upper division" courses I took at the University were simply a rehash of the courses I already had at Community College. The only difference were that they cost more. Would you like me to send you my official transcripts?

No, I don't need to see your transcripts.. but it obviously does matter where you go to school in this case, because a most CC ADN program's hours are in the low 70s. And BSN programs are around 120.

You have an inaccurate picture of the differences between an associate level degree and a bachelors level degree.

The only ABSN program that is totally online would be for RN-BSN bridge, since after an ADN you have the clinical component done and it's just theory classes to complete. ABSN programs for non-RNs have the full clinical component, and have to be taken in person. The reason an ABSN can be obtained in 1-2 years isn't because the are cramming 4 years of school into 2. It's because the student completed ALL freshmen and sophomore coursework, along with the program pre-requisites BEFORE entering the program..

I transferred into my school. They happily accepted EVERY required prereq and general ed course I had. The state schools usually have articulation agreements with CC for a smooth transfer.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that you went to one of the for-profit ADN programs that inflate what they consider 'credit hours' to get more money out of you. I also suspect you had trouble transferring classes to the BSN because of the ADN program you went to didn't have classes they felt were equivalent to that of the regionally accredited (for general studies) community colleges.

Remember, an ABSN is only available if you have a previous BS degree, meaning they already have about 120 hours. Plus an extra couple of semesters of pre-reqs. All they have left are the nursing core classes and clinicals- in addition to the extra theory the BSN requires. There is no ADN program that takes more schooling that that. Any way you try to slice it.

I could be wrong but out of curiosity I looked at a couple ADN programs in MI. For the sake of comparison I looked at a CC and a for-profit school, ITT Tech. I looked at the for-profit, because I wouldn't put it past them to tac on as many credit hours to the program as possible, because most charge by credit hour.

I was right about ITT Tech (and I'm sure others privates have similar set ups)- ITT added one credit hour to all the general eds that should be 3. They added 2-3 hours to some nursing classes. I believe the total came up to about 109-112 hours.

Here is a link to the private, for profit college's lesson plan.

The community college, as I suspected use the normal, reasonable credit hour schedule of an ADN.

Here is a link to the community college lesson plan. While some programs vary a bit, they won't be far off of this.

I honestly urge you to at least research this a little so that you understand that your path to ADN/BSN may not be typical.

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Specializes in School Nursing.
It doesn't matter where you go to school. The amount of coursework required for an ADN is roughly equivalent to a generic Baccalaureate degree.

I think I'm seeing the disconnect between our opinions. You're talking about ADN compared to a B.S. in like, communications- or other general field?

While you're right that an ADN has more hours than a general AA degree, even if you add in 12 hours of prereqs, you're still around 89 hours- much, much less than a BA degree.

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In the ADN programs that I was accepted to each unit of credit was equal to about two hours of time. For instance a term of 12 units of nursing courses work was actually 24 hours in lecture and lab. This was not the case with pre reqs, 15 credits was 15 hours in class. Are BSN programs like that where each nursing credit is two hours of class time? I am hoping to start a BSN program next fall

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Specializes in TELE, CVU, ICU.
No, I don't need to see your transcripts.. but it obviously does matter where you go to school in this case, because a most CC ADN program's hours are in the low 70s. And BSN programs are around 120.

You have an inaccurate picture of the differences between an associate level degree and a bachelors level degree.

The only ABSN program that is totally online would be for RN-BSN bridge, since after an ADN you have the clinical component done and it's just theory classes to complete. ABSN programs for non-RNs have the full clinical component, and have to be taken in person. The reason an ABSN can be obtained in 1-2 years isn't because the are cramming 4 years of school into 2. It's because the student completed ALL freshmen and sophomore coursework, along with the program pre-requisites BEFORE entering the program..

I transferred into my school. They happily accepted EVERY required prereq and general ed course I had. The state schools usually have articulation agreements with CC for a smooth transfer.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that you went to one of the for-profit ADN programs that inflate what they consider 'credit hours' to get more money out of you. I also suspect you had trouble transferring classes to the BSN because of the ADN program you went to didn't have classes they felt were equivalent to that of the regionally accredited (for general studies) community colleges.

You are wrong. I went to a community college, as I already stated. I had no trouble transferring any of my classes as they were the exact same classes that one takes at the university. No university accepts every unit completed at for transfer. There are a minimum number of units one must complete at the university that is furnishing the degree. It is like this for every major, not just nursing. One could have (as I did) overestimated 120 units of transferable coursework, it doesn't all count toward the degree.

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Specializes in Critical Care Nursing.

I live in Virginia, and I am a new graduate and the hospitals in the Richmond area are also trending toward hiring only BSN graduates, I was required to sign a statetment that stated I would get my bachelors within 5 years of being hired, if not I face termination at the end of the five years, they also went as a far as to require all RNs be bachelors degree educated within 5 years or they also face termination, regradless of their time within the organization. It's all about the money and in order to get more money for the organization hospital need to be Magnet accredidated and also receive awards like Beacon. I also am guessing this will be a new catch for Medicaid/Medicare reimbursement in the future and the hospitals are just trying to stay ahead of this.

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That doesnt sound legal. If people were hired on originally under the terms that having a ADN was enough and no BSN was needed, I dont see how they can legally fire someone who has done nothing wrong and has honored their original hire agreement. Requiring it of people who are NOW being hired is one thing, but it sounds like they may be opening themselves up to lawsuits for people who have been working there for years, who werent originally hired under those terms. *shrug*

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Specializes in School Nursing.
You are wrong. I went to a community college, as I already stated. I had no trouble transferring any of my classes as they were the exact same classes that one takes at the university. No university accepts every unit completed at for transfer. There are a minimum number of units one must complete at the university that is furnishing the degree. It is like this for every major, not just nursing. One could have (as I did) overestimated 120 units of transferable coursework, it doesn't all count toward the degree.

I see what you're saying.. in my program, there are classes that need to be completed at the university. There were classes that I took for my AA that I didn't need for the university program- but there wasn't one class I took that I have to retake at the university.. but only because the cards fell that way- I didn't NEED to take them for the AA degree so I didn't take anything I was going to be required to take at the university for my degree.

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