As if nursing isn't hard enough, this comment appeared in a local newpaper by "none"

Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN · Sep 17, 2010

I don't see none's post as being anti-nursing...I see it as his/her advocating for better pay for teachers given that they need a minimum of a bachelors degree (and often a masters' as well), and he just happened to use the ADN nurse as an example to compare salaries with.

Like others said, me also thinks you're reading too much in the question...er, post :)

GHGoonette, BSN, RN · Sep 18, 2010

Every time a recession hits, people's pension funds are the first to suffer. Besides that, pensions and social security funds are hit terribly hard in countries involved in conflict, whether inside or outside of their own borders. Many retired civil servants in South Africa are still suffering due to the strains put on their retirement funds as a result of the Anti-Apartheid struggle.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Sep 18, 2010

It has always infuriated me that people say that teachers are not well paid...YES, THEY ARE.

Teachers in my state are paid a higher yearly salary than I do, as a relatively new nurse.

They get summers off, I don't.

They get Spring Break off, I don't.

They get two weeks at Christmas, a long weekend at Thanksgiving, Fall Break in some areas, I don't.

They get snow days, I have to go in no matter what the weather is doing.

They get a set schedule, I don't.

They have a pension that they get when they retire...I don't get one with my employer...401K is what I put into the system...in other words, I have to save for my own retirement and forget medical insurance in retirement...isn't happening, however, it's included with most teacher pension plans.

IF YOU TAKE, WHAT TEACHERS MAKE A YEAR, AND DIVIDE IT BY 1440 (THE NUMBER OF FULL-TIME HOURS IN A 9-MONTH SCHOOL YEAR), THEN TAKE THAT FIGURE, AND MULTIPLY IT BY 2080 (THE NUMBER OF FULL-TIME HOURS IN A 12-MONTH CALENDER YEAR)....MOST NEWER TEACHERS WOULD BE MAKING OVER $50k AND IN SOME CASES OVER $60K....IF THEY WORKED THE ENTIRE YEAR INSTEAD OF HAVING ALL THAT TIME OFF.

So, to me, it's a trade-off.

TakeOne · Sep 18, 2010

...Teachers in my state are paid a higher yearly salary than I do, as a relatively new nurse.
They get summers off, I don't.
They get Spring Break off, I don't.
They get two weeks at Christmas, a long weekend at Thanksgiving, Fall Break in some areas, I don't.
They get snow days, I have to go in no matter what the weather is doing.
They get a set schedule, I don't.
They have a pension that they get when they retire...I don't get one with my employer...401K is what I put into the system...in other words, I have to save for my own retirement and forget medical insurance in retirement...isn't happening, however, it's included with most teacher pension plans.

So either go be a teacher or quit complaining about teachers having summers off, spring break off, weekends off, holidays off, pensions, etc.

And as I mentioned earlier, my mother only had medical insurance at retirement because she paid into supplemental plans after retirement. The rest was Medicare and Medicare D. She was hit hard by reimbursement cut-backs and increased deductibles and co-pays, changes in medication coverage, and diminishing numbers of practices that would accept her medical plan. After carefully planning a retirement that should have sustained her well and investing in it for decades of working life, her standard of living after retirement dropped like a stone. The cost of living had risen so much that her pension, a lavish sum at the time she signed up for it, was little more than meager by the time she was eligible to collect it. And because she had deducted pension investments from her already low wages (her annual wage at the end of her career was only $16,000, after many decades of working for the same system), she had never had enough to save independent of a pension plan.

Brainiacster · Sep 18, 2010

Having several teachers in my family, I can tell you their education is pure fluff. Literally, an ape could do it. They actually take classes that include lesson planning, classroom control, and the like. What happened to the 3 R's?! MOST teachers cannot even do simple algebra. It's atrocious. I'm not sure why they get 4 yr degrees...some admin types must have decided to throw in a lot of extra busy work to make it a 4-yr degree. Nursing curriculum is far more demanding; albeit, a year shorter (adding an extra yr for prereqs) for those with ADN degrees. Most teachers are state government workers and they are also union workers (NEA is the teachers' union). Teachers expect nurses & other private industry workers to work until age 70 to pay for teachers retiring in their 50's on govt pensions - often those pensions are 80% of their last 3 yrs' salaries and, after a few yrs, they end up making more during retirement than when they worked due to COLAs. Usually, nurses have to contribute their OWN money to 401k's while teachers (guaranteed govt pensions to which they rarely have to contribute) freeload off the nurse, etc tax payer. (Good luck putting much into your own 401k while you're stuck funding the teachers' retirements.) Adding impetus, teachers almost can't be fired (typical union-govt jobs) and many get bent out of shape if anyone expects to hold them accountable for performing their jobs adequately enough to get kids to pass national exams. Moreover, teachers work, on average, 90 days less per yr than the typical worker. I have actually seen some teachers who think MD wages should be cut while teacher wages are increased (putting their salaries at about the same as an MDs...for far less demanding and far shorter educations). Basically, government & union workers demand pie in the sky and they don't care that it's you and me who gets stuck paying for it. Cha-ching! If teachers don't like the pay, I suggest they get REAL degrees & stop their whining along with their gouging of the tax payer. Lastly, unions have NO business in govt jobs - that's tantamount to forcing tax payers to cough it up without even so much as voting rights on the issue.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Sep 18, 2010

So either go be a teacher or quit complaining about teachers having summers off, spring break off, weekends off, holidays off, pensions, etc.
And as I mentioned earlier, my mother only had medical insurance at retirement because she paid into supplemental plans after retirement. The rest was Medicare and Medicare D. She was hit hard by reimbursement cut-backs and increased deductibles and co-pays, changes in medication coverage, and diminishing numbers of practices that would accept her medical plan. After carefully planning a retirement that should have sustained her well and investing in it for decades of working life, her standard of living after retirement dropped like a stone. The cost of living had risen so much that her pension, a lavish sum at the time she signed up for it, was little more than meager by the time she was eligible to collect it. And because she had deducted pension investments from her already low wages (her annual wage at the end of her career was only $16,000, after many decades of working for the same system), she had never had enough to save independent of a pension plan.

Then blame the state she lived in, because I can tell you now, it's not the norm.

My MIL just retired this year, over 30 years in the system...her retirement salary is $36,000 a year plus full medical coverage.

So don't think that the deal that she got cut is typical, because I can tell you now, it's not.

Not to mention, in most states, they also have union protection.

Also, didn't you say your Mom retired in 1982? At $16K?

My MIL made $61K a year her last year and she does NOT live in a major city...but a city of about 30K people.

Brainiacster · Sep 18, 2010

Actually, in most areas the minimum requirement for teachers is the Master's Degree. They can be hired with a Bachelor's but must be actively in a Master's program already, or commit to achieving their Master's degree within a very few years. If that degree is not completed within the prescribed time, they are no longer employed.

A master's degree in what? Glorified babysitting???!!! Hate to rain on your parade, but there is absolutely NO need for teachers to acquire even bachelor's degrees; nevermind, master's degrees. Apparently, those in control are cooking up MORE busy work or trying to elevate teaching to a higher pay status by requiring more mindless, busy work education. The undergrad education teachers get now is a joke re level of difficulty. Me thinks you've elevated teaching in your own mind. Perhaps some haldol is due...

To be perfectly honest, most nurses can run circles around teachers regarding teaching math and sciences. Certainly, those of us in engineering can too. The notion of teaching as a "profession" (cough) is laughable. Quite frankly, I doubt most teachers could handle a nursing or an engineering curriculum. You get paid what you're worth in the private sector. Apparently, teachers have to resort to unions & gov't to demand salaries they don't deserve in the real world. Many tax payers are fed up with teachers & other useless workers feeling "entitled" to our well-deserved earnings. Go back to school to get a proper degree and start paying for your OWN pensions & health insurance just as most in the private sector now do. Govt workers are tantamount to glorified Welfare bums. I might suggest you'd be happier in socialistic Europe! (Oh, did I mention most teachers vote Democrat too? Can't imagine why... chortle)

latebloomernurse · Sep 18, 2010

wow, i know teachers work hard and put in long hours but this guy thinks teachers deserve a much higher salary than a asn nurse. what do you think 2-year degree/all nurses? please let me know your thoughts. i was outraged, not that teachers dont deserve the $50 per hour, but that he thinks it should be so much more than a nurse. here's his post as it appears in the newspaper:
none said...
as long as we in the usa supports the mentality of sgt's comment and not teufel's comments inferences, we will have second rate schools. a true blue, quality teacher should be very well paid. they are in a profession (male or female as a teacher) as in 'a woman's work is never done syndrome'/they work at home, summers, all the time preparing for their students, enquiring, mentally and physically/actually; teaching is only the significant/weekday part of their work. persons with an as degree in nursing as a travel nurse can make as much as $35.00 an hour. 'comparatively', teachers, perhaps, should make at least 50 dollars an hour, and would still be under paid, given what ceo's, for example, make, if one were to compare them to the salaries and bonuses of wall street executives and so many other so called business professions and they have never learned basic 'lessons'! you know exactly what i mean sgt. so stop bellyaching and go pay your taxes with glee. don beattie in winthrop, me.
september 4, 2010 at 9:01 am

thank you, colleagues, for the insight and thoughtful discussion regarding my post. i agree it's like comparing apples to oranges. i wonder if "none" would think a teacher more qualified, 'comparatively', to save his life based on education! additionally, if he's a teacher or has any connection to education, he embodies everything that is wrong with our current system of paying teachers according to tenure. i feel validated that others feel the same way. i think he slept through english grammar and writing classes. i certainly wouldn't want him teaching my children... :uhoh3:

island40 · Sep 18, 2010

When I get the hours (177 days a year) and the benefits (fully funded retirement at 80% of base salary) that teachers get, I will gladly take the pay cut! P.S. I loved working in the school system as a school nurse in AZ!! and it is unfortunately few and far between that teachers spent the kind of time and energy preparing for their classes that this person describes - after teaching the course once the instructor only need to review it and update as needed.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Sep 18, 2010

Actually, in most areas the minimum requirement for teachers is the Master's Degree. They can be hired with a Bachelor's but must be actively in a Master's program already, or commit to achieving their Master's degree within a very few years. If that degree is not completed within the prescribed time, they are no longer employed.

I don't know of any state where a Masters is a requirement, ever, for anything other than collegiate instruction or if they are required to get one. Seriously, you really need to research this, because it's not true.

In fact, the reason that many teachers don't get their Masters degree is because they only get $1,000 or $2,000 added to their yearly salary and they complain that it costs them more to obtain the degree than they ever see back in pay.

I'll support, higher teacher pay, when teachers start getting paid based on performance on standardized tests...which, TEACHERS HAVE FOUGHT against....why do they object to being held to a standard? Any standard!

I get a review every year for my job...a couple of years of bad reviews and I no longer have a job.

Teachers have this thing called tenure, which means, they can essentially sit back and do nothing, still get paid and they virtually, cannot be fired unless they punch a student out or something serious like that.

I cannot even tell you, the number of teaches that I have had over the years, that refused to even provide bare minimum instruction...they use the power points from the book and tests from the test bank.

I can count the number of excellent, hard-working teachers that I have had on one hand with fingers left over.

Bad teachers will tell you that students only want an easy class.

The teachers that were my favorite, I worked harder in those classes than any other....but the instruction was good, the teacher was respectful and bent over backwards to help when requested...therefore, I felt MASSIVELY obligated to do the same for them.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Sep 18, 2010

...by the way, I feel like I have the right to have my opinion on teachers because I aspire to teach at a university level myself one day.

I am a firm believer in students being responsible for their own learning....I wouldn't lift a finger to help a student that never came to class.

But I am also a firm believer, in working a full work-week and if a student or students say they need help, then it would be my entire job to help them understand whatever subject matter they are struggling with......even if it meant setting up additional study sessions and leading them.

Not_A_Hat_Person, RN · Sep 18, 2010

I don't know of any state where a Masters is a requirement, ever, for anything other than collegiate instruction or if they are required to get one. Seriously, you really need to research this, because it's not true.

Massachusetts has required public school teachers to have a Masters within 5 years of licensure since the 1990s.