Wow, I know teachers work hard and put in long hours but this guy thinks teachers deserve a much higher salary than a ASN nurse. What do you think 2-year degree/all nurses? Please let me know your thoughts. I was outraged, not that teachers dont deserve the $50 per hour, but that he thinks it should be so much more than a nurse. Here's his post as it appears in the newspaper:
None said...
As long as we in the USA supports the mentality of sgt's comment and not Teufel's comments inferences, we will have second rate schools. A true blue, quality teacher should be very well paid. They are in a profession (male or female as a teacher) as in 'a woman's work is never done syndrome'/they work at home, summers, all the time preparing for their students, enquiring, mentally and physically/actually; teaching is only the significant/weekday part of their work. Persons with an AS degree in nursing as a travel nurse can make as much as $35.00 an hour. 'Comparatively', Teachers, perhaps, should make at least 50 dollars an hour, and would still be under paid, given what CEO's, for example, make, if one were to compare them to the salaries and bonuses of Wall Street executives and so many other so called business professions and THEY have never learned basic 'lessons'! You know exactly what I mean sgt. So stop bellyaching and go pay your taxes with glee. Don Beattie in Winthrop, Me.
I don't know of any state where a Masters is a requirement, ever, for anything other than collegiate instruction or if they are required to get one. Seriously, you really need to research this, because it's not true.
NY state teachers need their MS in Education before they have 5 years in teaching.
I know because I'm a few credits shy from my MS in Education, I'm from NY and I was going to be a teacher.
I'll support, higher teacher pay, when teachers start getting paid based on performance on standardized tests...which, TEACHERS HAVE FOUGHT against....why do they object to being held to a standard? Any standard!
I get a review every year for my job...a couple of years of bad reviews and I no longer have a job.
Teachers have this thing called tenure, which means, they can essentially sit back and do nothing, still get paid and they virtually, cannot be fired unless they punch a student out or something serious like that.
It's very hard to grade teachers when every student learns differently. I was teaching 8th grade English - when I wasn't dealing with classroom management issues, I was trying to get everyone to understand one book when I have on child on a 3rd grade reading level and the child next to him on a 12 grade reading level. Teachers, in NYC anyways, get graded on the overall progress of the students in their class - if they don't make progress, the teacher fails and too many failures will lead to the teacher getting fired.
And let's not mention that many teachers actually do take a standardized test to teach if they teach in public schools - I had to take two tests. One test was a basic knowledge test and the other test was content knowledge...so for me, an English test.
Tenure is not just about sitting back and doing nothing - well at least not in NYC. You can and will get fired for that.
I cannot even tell you, the number of teaches that I have had over the years, that refused to even provide bare minimum instruction...they use the power points from the book and tests from the test bank.
I can count the number of excellent, hard-working teachers that I have had on one hand with fingers left over.
Bad teachers will tell you that students only want an easy class.
The teachers that were my favorite, I worked harder in those classes than any other....but the instruction was good, the teacher was respectful and bent over backwards to help when requested...therefore, I felt MASSIVELY obligated to do the same for them.
People only focus on the bad teachers and forget about the good teachers - even you do. You wrote a long post about how horrible teachers are and just a few sentences about the good teachers. Overall, from what I've seen in the many NYC schools that I have subbed in and the one school that I was an English teacher for 6 months, most teachers are good at their job and want their students to learn.
Also teacher preference is something very subjective...very very subjective. I had lots of students that loved me but there were some that hated me with every fiber of their being because they thought that I was being too hard on them. God forbid that I asked them for work two weeks before they were graduating or give them homework over the weekend.
...by the way, I feel like I have the right to have my opinion on teachers because I aspire to teach at a university level myself one day.
I am a firm believer in students being responsible for their own learning....I wouldn't lift a finger to help a student that never came to class.
But I am also a firm believer, in working a full work-week and if a student or students say they need help, then it would be my entire job to help them understand whatever subject matter they are struggling with......even if it meant setting up additional study sessions and leading them.
University teaching is another beast than K-12 teaching. You are working with a different age group who are paying to be there. On a college level course, the instructor is not responsible for the student if he/she fails to understand the subject while in K-12, the teacher is responsible.
Whether Nursing or teaching is harder - I'm in my first nursing class now and I don't have the knowledge to really tell. What I can tell you is that teaching isn't as easy at it sounds. I've spent at least 40 hours a week of my own time making lesson plans, trying to perfect them and differentiate different points so that students of differing levels of comprehension would be able to work with my lesson. I never sat down while teaching unless I was sitting by a student asking him/her what she was reading, asking him/her to read to me, asking him/her what they just read, how did that make them feel, etc. At times I felt like I was a social worker, nurse, parent and big brother.
Teaching is a hard job. Is it harder than Nursing? I'm not sure but I know this - Nursing is very skilled base and that's where I think Nursing pulls ahead when it comes in terms of difficulty. If I misspoke in front of my students and told them a falsehood about grammar or something (like a small thing) it wouldn't be as big of a deal as taking blood pressure on the left arm when the Pt. just had mastectomy on the left side. ( I had to use a BP example because I just learned BP this week =D )
*Please forgive me if I left out words or if I typed things out of place - I type rather fast and I sometimes leave out words, misspell words etc. If this was an English paper, I would reread everything that I had wrote and make sure that it was correct but this is the internet. =D*
Then blame the state she lived in, because I can tell you now, it's not the norm.
My MIL just retired this year, over 30 years in the system...her retirement salary is $36,000 a year plus full medical coverage.
So don't think that the deal that she got cut is typical, because I can tell you now, it's not.
Not to mention, in most states, they also have union protection.
Also, didn't you say your Mom retired in 1982? At $16K?
My MIL made $61K a year her last year and she does NOT live in a major city...but a city of about 30K people.
She had union protection and a pension plan which, at the time she signed up for it, guaranteed what was then a damned good income. She started teaching in the late '40s and retired in 1982. When did your MIL start?
She was also guaranteed full medical, which gradually got eroded back as reimbursement limits took hold. Initially, things were better on Medicare, but then Medicare got into the reimbursement act.
She also lived twenty seven years after retirement, something that was still something of a rarity when she enrolled in the benefits plan. Retiree longevity is something that has been coming back to bite many, many employers in the ass nowadays.
As for her income, it was typical for someone consistently employed. She started at $6,000/yr, and ended at $16,000. You could compare that to my salary history. I started in the '80s at $22,000/yr and it didn't double until last year. Unfortunately, the expenses it's expected to cover have tripled and quadrupled in that time.
She had union protection and a pension plan which, at the time she signed up for it, guaranteed what was then a damned good income. She started teaching in the late '40s and retired in 1982. When did your MIL start?
She was also guaranteed full medical, which gradually got eroded back as reimbursement limits took hold. Initially, things were better on Medicare, but then Medicare got into the reimbursement act.
She also lived twenty seven years after retirement, something that was still something of a rarity when she enrolled in the benefits plan. Retiree longevity is something that has been coming back to bite many, many employers in the ass nowadays.
As for her income, it was typical for someone consistently employed. She started at $6,000/yr, and ended at $16,000. You could compare that to my salary history. I started in the '80s at $22,000/yr and it didn't double until last year. Unfortunately, the expenses it's expected to cover have tripled and quadrupled in that time.
She started teaching in 1978 or 1979 and taught elementary education her entire life.
Specializes in Emergency, Cardiac, PAT/SPU, Urgent Care.
I give teachers a ton of credit - for I know I couldn't do their job. However, I really despise it when the time comes every few years for contract negotiations and the threat of striking. The teachers in my district average $60K per year salary (for 9 months) with free health insurance. My friend from across the street who teaches in my district makes close to $70K/year (she has her masters degree and has been a teacher for about 10 years). She gets two free periods during the school day where she can grade papers or work on lesson plans, so she is not up in front of a class teaching the whole time she is at school, nor is she bringing a ton of work home at the end of the day. She gets a lunch break. She is typically home by 3:45 PM every day. She has a fabulous pension plan, she is tenured, and she received an 8% raise last year for just showing up and doing her job.
I think that is where things with teachers should change. Once they are tenured, it truly is like job assurance. Unless they really screw up in a major way - they have a very slim chance of losing their jobs. They have guaranteed raises written into their contracts at percentages that are way above what my hospital would give for an "exceptional employee." They could be the worst teacher there is, but as long as they are tenured, they will get that raise (or go on strike to ensure they get it). Maybe their profession should require performance appraisals, also - just like the rest of us.
She started teaching in 1978 or 1979 and taught elementary education her entire life.
You mean she was teaching for thirty years.
She started working decades later than my mother did, in an entirely different era economically. Her starting wage would have been higher to begin with. If she had good collective bargaining and regular raises, she would have done well. However, now that she is retired, she's up the creek whenever the economy tanks and inflation takes off--the same boat my mother found herself in.
The teachers in my district average $60K per year salary (for 9 months) with free health insurance...
Stop that! It's not for nine months. It's for twelve months. A year for teachers is that same as a year for the rest of us.
And are you sure your district's health insurance is "free"? All employer-paid? No employee contribution at all? No deductibles? No co-pays? Are you sure?
A master's degree in what? Glorified babysitting???!!! Hate to rain on your parade, but there is absolutely NO need for teachers to acquire even bachelor's degrees; nevermind, master's degrees. Apparently, those in control are cooking up MORE busy work or trying to elevate teaching to a higher pay status by requiring more mindless, busy work education. The undergrad education teachers get now is a joke re level of difficulty. Me thinks you've elevated teaching in your own mind. Perhaps some haldol is due...
I'm sorry that your family is filled with bad teachers and that you obviously had many bad teachers in your lifetime. Personally, I had great teachers whom I admired tremendously. Also, you callin' my mother an ape? Come over here and say that!
Specializes in Emergency, Cardiac, PAT/SPU, Urgent Care.
Stop that! It's not for nine months. It's for twelve months. A year for teachers is that same as a year for the rest of us.
And are you sure your district's health insurance is "free"? All employer-paid? No employee contribution at all? No deductibles? No co-pays? Are you sure?
What's the problem? It's for nine months of work. Plus, 60-70K/year is a very good salary - 12 mos or 9 mos! As an experienced RN, I never came close to that unless I worked nights/weekends/holidays to receive the shift/holiday differentials.
And yes, it is employer-paid. They don't have monthly health insurance deductions taken from their pay - yet they were very upset when the district wanted to start having them pay for their family's health care benefits (still free for the teacher, though). One of the main reasons they threatened to strike most recently. Yes, they do have co-pays to make, but compared to having a few hundred dollars deducted monthly, that's peanuts! I am sure because this info is posted on the district's Web site (our school board meeting minutes are posted) - as well as all of the teachers' salaries being public information. I'm not making this up. Then there's maternity leave where they can be out for a year and still keep their position. Their last contract gave them a 6%, 7% and then an 8% raise over the past three years. I've never seen more than a 5% raise - ever, and that was after having numerous evalautions that rated me as an "exceptional employee." Plus, they get bonuses if they agree to have a student teacher in their classroom, or if they mentor a brand-new teacher. This has never occurred anywhere where I have been a preceptor or had a student nurse with me.
Like I said, I don't have anything against teachers - if they can get into a great district like mine that provides the above - more power to them, but please don't threaten to strike and then claim it's for the children - that's what infuriates me! By striking they are causing me to spend more money to pay for a babysitter or lose pay for an unscheduled day off. How is striking for increased medical benefits for them helping my child? Please feel free to enlighten me.
I also agree that comparing the two professions is like comparing apples to oranges, but I'm just responding because it was initially brought up in the OP. I actually hate when these debates come up because they usually turn ugly very quickly.
Wow, I know teachers work hard and put in long hours but this guy thinks teachers deserve a much higher salary than a ASN nurse. What do you think 2-year degree/all nurses? Please let me know your thoughts. I was outraged, not that teachers dont deserve the $50 per hour, but that he thinks it should be so much more than a nurse. Here's his post as it appears in the newspaper:
Given that teachers are salaried and often work much more that their contracted hours - with no additional compensation at all - I certainly think that they should have a higher hourly rate than nurses.
I think teachers deserve to be paid well but as babylady said they get lots of time off. Nurses don't. I work
Thanksgiving and Christmas and teachers get vacation for the week.
If one wanted nights, holidays, weekends and summers off, then one should have went into teaching and not nursing. Mind you, being a school nurse or nursing instructor would be the best of both worlds: nursing with teacher's hours. Then again, one would probably have to take a big pay cut to do that.
Seriously, most of us here knew that when we went into nursing that we wouldn't be getting nights, holidays, weekends and summers off. And yet we still went into it anyway because for whatever reason, we wanted to be nurses. I may not like the hours, but I accept it as part of the job.
Then again, one would probably have to take a big pay cut to do that.
metricalpound
122 Posts
NY state teachers need their MS in Education before they have 5 years in teaching.
I know because I'm a few credits shy from my MS in Education, I'm from NY and I was going to be a teacher.
It's very hard to grade teachers when every student learns differently. I was teaching 8th grade English - when I wasn't dealing with classroom management issues, I was trying to get everyone to understand one book when I have on child on a 3rd grade reading level and the child next to him on a 12 grade reading level. Teachers, in NYC anyways, get graded on the overall progress of the students in their class - if they don't make progress, the teacher fails and too many failures will lead to the teacher getting fired.
And let's not mention that many teachers actually do take a standardized test to teach if they teach in public schools - I had to take two tests. One test was a basic knowledge test and the other test was content knowledge...so for me, an English test.
Tenure is not just about sitting back and doing nothing - well at least not in NYC. You can and will get fired for that.
People only focus on the bad teachers and forget about the good teachers - even you do. You wrote a long post about how horrible teachers are and just a few sentences about the good teachers. Overall, from what I've seen in the many NYC schools that I have subbed in and the one school that I was an English teacher for 6 months, most teachers are good at their job and want their students to learn.
Also teacher preference is something very subjective...very very subjective. I had lots of students that loved me but there were some that hated me with every fiber of their being because they thought that I was being too hard on them. God forbid that I asked them for work two weeks before they were graduating or give them homework over the weekend.
University teaching is another beast than K-12 teaching. You are working with a different age group who are paying to be there. On a college level course, the instructor is not responsible for the student if he/she fails to understand the subject while in K-12, the teacher is responsible.
Whether Nursing or teaching is harder - I'm in my first nursing class now and I don't have the knowledge to really tell. What I can tell you is that teaching isn't as easy at it sounds. I've spent at least 40 hours a week of my own time making lesson plans, trying to perfect them and differentiate different points so that students of differing levels of comprehension would be able to work with my lesson. I never sat down while teaching unless I was sitting by a student asking him/her what she was reading, asking him/her to read to me, asking him/her what they just read, how did that make them feel, etc. At times I felt like I was a social worker, nurse, parent and big brother.
Teaching is a hard job. Is it harder than Nursing? I'm not sure but I know this - Nursing is very skilled base and that's where I think Nursing pulls ahead when it comes in terms of difficulty. If I misspoke in front of my students and told them a falsehood about grammar or something (like a small thing) it wouldn't be as big of a deal as taking blood pressure on the left arm when the Pt. just had mastectomy on the left side. ( I had to use a BP example because I just learned BP this week =D )
*Please forgive me if I left out words or if I typed things out of place - I type rather fast and I sometimes leave out words, misspell words etc. If this was an English paper, I would reread everything that I had wrote and make sure that it was correct but this is the internet. =D*