As basic decency slips away....We watch them die and do nothing.........

Published

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110601/ts_yblog_thelookout/handcuffed-by-policy-fire-and-police-crews-watch-man-drown

This just breaks my heart....

'Handcuffed by policy,' fire and police crews watch man drown

By Zachary Roth

San-Francisco-Bay.jpgAn apparently suicidal man waded into San Francisco Bay on Monday, stood up to his neck, and waited. As the man drowned, police, fire crews, and others watched idly from the shore.

Why? Officials blamed a departmental policy, stemming from budget cuts, that prevented them from jumping in to save him.

Fifty-year-old Raymond Zack spent nearly an hour in the water before drowning. A crowd of about 75 people, in addition to first responders, watched from the beach in Alameda across the bay from San Francisco as Zack inched farther and farther away, sometimes glancing back, a witness told the San Jose Mercury News. "The next thing he was floating face down."

A volunteer eventually pulled Zack's lifeless body from the Bay.

Mike D'Orazi of the Alameda Fire Department said that, due to 2009 budget cuts, his crews lacked the training and gear to enter the water. And a Coast Guard boat couldn't access the area because the water was too shallow.

"The incident yesterday was deeply regrettable," D'Orazi said Tuesday. "But I can also see it from our firefighters' perspective. They're standing there wanting to do something, but they are handcuffed by policy at that point."

Alameda Police Lt. Sean Lynch also suggested his men did the right thing. "He was engaged in a deliberate act of taking his own life," Lynch told the Mercury News. "We did not know whether he was violent, whether drugs were involved. It's not a situation of a typical rescue."

But at a City Council hearing Tuesday night, some locals expressed outrage that Zack was left to die. "This just strikes me as not just a problem with funding, but a problem with the culture of what's going on in our city, that no one would take the time and help this drowning man," said one resident, Adam Gillitt.

The city said it would spend up to $40,000 to certify 16 firefighters in land-based water rescues.

One witness to the event told a local news station that Zack was looking at people on the shore. "We expected to see at some point that there would be a concern for him," said another.

(Paul Sakuma/AP)

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Dang man... what about a LIFEGUARD?

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Specializes in Medical Surgical Orthopedic.

As sad as the situation is, I can't blame the fire and police crews. The wader wanted to die, but the people on the shore did not. And if they didn't have the ability to safely rescue the wading man, then they did the right thing by staying where they were at. There would have been no sense in everyone jumping in and drowning with him.

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Seventy five people watched this happen. Devastating.

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Specializes in SICU.

so... couldn't the volunteer that pulled his lifeless body out of the water have rescued him before he drowned?

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Specializes in ER, Prehospital, Flight.

Budget cuts that mean they had no training or gear(as stated in the article) for a rescue that was in a bay that is known for cold temps and swift currents. Rescuing a man that is comitting suicide is not the same as a rescue of a normal drowing victim.

1.Without any gear, that is going to be difficult considering the body of water temps and currents. No floatation device and no rope to tie off is a very foolish thing to attempt.

2.A man committing suicide is likely to want to take you down with him or fight you, more than an already difficult drowning type rescue. He is trying to die!

3.The bystanders also saw a real the danger in this. It appears to be much more than wading out and retrieving him.

4.I am (along with my Fire Dept engine co. of course) the boat crew for my city for the Mississippi area we cover. No gear, cold swift water, and a suicidal victim equals a likely tragedy for all involved.

5.My experience from news articles\TV reporters that cover incidents I have been involved in, has been that they are very inacurate and tend to leave out important details that make for more drama. Thats as nice as I can put this. We are likely not hearing anything near the full story here.

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Specializes in ER, Prehospital, Flight.
so... couldn't the volunteer that pulled his lifeless body out of the water have rescued him before he drowned?

His lifeless body was probably floating back to shore.

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If you have never been to San Francisco, the water is freezing and there are dangerous rocks, not to mention the undertow of the ocean, the waves and the sharks. Unless I had special training, I would not have been able to save this man either and we both would've been dead, regardless of my ability to swim well.

I agree, it's very sad.

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As sad as the situation is, I can't blame the fire and police crews. The wader wanted to die, but the people on the shore did not. And if they didn't have the ability to safely rescue the wading man, then they did the right thing by staying where they were at. There would have been no sense in everyone jumping in and drowning with him.

Agreed. A water rescue poses serious risks. I'm sure we've all heard stories about would-be-rescuers drowning along with the victim.

Incidentally, the local fire department's water rescue program was discontinued in 2009 because of lack of funds. I think this, rather than berating bystanders for not jumping into the water, is the direction for improvement.

http://alameda.patch.com/articles/alameda-public-safety-agencies-respond-to-beach-death

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2.A man committing suicide is likely to want to take you down with him or fight you, more than an already difficult drowning type rescue. He is trying to die!

Not disagreeing with your point, but actively drowning individuals will fight a lifeguard as hard as I've seen anybody fight. Their body wants air, and they'll get it by any means necessary.

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Specializes in Peri-Op.

I can kind of see where these people are coming from. While on vacation in Mx I saw a couple of young women being told not to swim in a certain area, signs said not to swim in this area... what do they do, go swim in this area that has a heavy break, strong current and very sharp rocks/barnacles with cliffs on the other side of the beach preventing escape.... Well next thing you know they are screaming and crying. I stared at them and waited to see what was going to happen. My wife wondered why I wouldnt swim out, I told her once their heads go under I will go get them, I am a very strong swimmer and am confident that I could get one of them back in safely while they were conscious but with both of them going crazy it was a death wish.... Another dude jumped in and almost got drowned by them right after I told her this.... I went out and got one of them from dunking him and he was able to restrain the other one too.... with one person trying to help them it was a no go.... I would rather give someone CPR than be killed trying to bring them in kicking and screaming.

I would not attempt to go out and rescue a psychotic/suicidal man in 60 degree water with the currents that flow through that bay. He can have fun out there, I would make spectator # 76.

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Agreed. A water rescue poses serious risks. I'm sure we've all heard stories about would-be-rescuers drowning along with the victim.

Incidentally, the local fire department's water rescue program was discontinued in 2009 because of lack of funds. I think this, rather than berating bystanders for not jumping into the water, is the direction for improvement.

http://alameda.patch.com/articles/alameda-public-safety-agencies-respond-to-beach-death

And yet, after all the criticisms ad inevitable threats (if not actively pursuing) of suing, etc all the sudden they're willing to put new policies, or reinstate old policies, into place......

The whole things is just awful.

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