Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

LydiaNN · Mar 29, 2005

Mercy, you mis-read me!
I thought it was a good article, and appreciate the perspective that -- as a person with disabilities -- had to offer to the debate.
Thanks for posting it.
Jim Huffman, RN

Yikes. I was totally confused. I intially hit reply to Tweety's message, and his quoted you. Then I thought it was your's I meant to reply to, and yet apparently I was still reading the content of his. I do that sometimes. :uhoh21: :confused: :rotfl:

MTP

begalli · Mar 29, 2005

I never thought about the hospice patients. how terribly sad for them. For this one patient that can't die in peace, how many other families are suffering. sad sad sad.

Today, a resident other than Terri Shiavo passed away at this hospice.

According to news reports, as a direct result of the "circus" going on outside the hospice, the granddaughter of the resident who passed away was unable to get past security at the hospice and to the bedside of her grandfather in time.

This is unbelievable.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/22/Southpinellas/Pain_of_publicity_int.shtml

ktwlpn, LPN · Mar 29, 2005

So, if you are born normal but subsequently got polio or some degenerative nerve disease or were tossed from a horse onto your neck, you don't have a right to say anything? You don't have a right to legal protection? That is a different and lesser kind of disability? Only those "born that way" get a voice? Or are valuable? Or are worth loving?
You can't eat a hamburger or wipe your own butt and that means a lesser quality of life and you should die? Come on, I know many very accomplished folks who can't wipe their butts. (My three year old for instance :roll
I have a niece who was born with spina bifida - she has to cath herself to pee and has had numerous ortho surgeries and other surguries to replace her shunt . .. I'd knock Dr. Kervorkian on his mean old kester before I'd let him near her.
I can certainly see the disabled folks point . . .it looks like no one values them as human beings. That has gotta be scary.
steph

Steph-re-read the post-----

You totally misunderstood what I said-I don't know what you talking about- I have the RIGHT to choose how I want to live my life JUST AS the disabled do....I am NOT saying MY choice should be their choice or anyone else's....as I said -I fear being dependent more then I fear death....I have a much different perspective then someone like your niece who was born with a disability...But according to the law she also has the right to make an advance directive....What I see is the disabled community--all higher functioning then Terri -trying to FORCE THEIR CHOICE ON HER...I am betting that the disabled protestors in front of that hospice really would not want to live in Terri's state.....They have NO right to try to speak for her---she is NOT LIKE THEM.....There are DIFFERENT types of disability....someone BORN healthy has a much different perspective then one born challenged...Can't you understand how that changes a person's perspectives? A person born with multiple birth defects, both mental and physical does not KNOW anything about the quality of their life......and they DO deserve to LIVE....Just because I would NOT want to live like that does not make me a bad evil person....It's MY CHOICE....I consider ALL the ramifications-to my family and to society.....A hard choice because it is an UNSELFISH choice,maybe?.......We see what happens to these severly damaged people on a daily basis-their parents are long dead and they linger on in LTC with no-one left to love them.....It does not sound like a life I would want MY child to live....nor would I choose it for myself-and I have no doubt that the majority of people in this country agree ---ALL the polls show this ....The minority happen to be VERY vocal and skillful at manipulating the publics emotions with rhetoric and untruths,IMHO,,,,

allnurses Guide · Mar 29, 2005

how about a little left-wing rhetoric? the title of this one alone is very interesting.
"terri schiavo was just an innocent bystander to a political, elmer gantry circus of gop political opportunists and religious hucksters
terri schiavo deserves our sympathy and our godspeed.
she was just an innocent bystander to a political, elmer gantry circus of gop political opportunists and religious hucksters.
the origins of the travesty and moral crime of exploitation was a family feud of sorts. it was about a wrenching decision made thousands of times a year by americans about loved ones who are in vegetative states or terminal conditions. she isn't in a pvs (according to some) and she isn't terminal.
but with the help of the infamous randall terry and the gop hypocrisy machine, a case long ago settled by the courts, was hijacked to advance republican fortunes and fill the pocket books of celebrity fundamentalist preachers. (i don't like randall terry but i don't see how this case is filling anyone's pockets)
terri schiavo, like anyone in her situation, deserves our sympathy and our empathy. she didn't ask for a three ring circus, but the bush brothers and tom "the exterminator delay" could care less about her dignity or her life. she's only of use to them if her parents' campaign can help them further consolidate power -- or, in the case of delay, cling onto it amidst a rash of ethical and legal problems. (arrggh - just a personal nitpicking . . it is couldn't care less).
we are always a bit baffled when the mainstream media and centrist democrats "concede" that the republicans have some sort of monopoly on the "values issue." the only value that the gop leadership seems to consistently embrace is hypocrisy. virtually, everything else is brazen showboating by hardened sinners and liars, immoral opportunists and slick river boat gamblers playing the role of saintly pious men. (yeah, that's me all right)
take tom delay as the los angeles times did this week -- and as buzzflash has over the past five years. delay decried judges and anyone who would remove a feeding tube from terri schiavo as barbaric (even though it is done in such cases thousands of times a year). and that was just the beginning of his self-righteous fire and brimstone invective. this writer keeps mixing up people who are terminally ill and dyiing with terri, who is brain damaged and healthy
but it turns out that tom "hypocrisy central" delay approved of removing life support from his father some years back. and, as for delay casting judgment on michael schiavo (who sat at his wife's bedside for years), tom hasn't, according to the washington post, talked to his mother or siblings for years. he didn't even invite his mother to his daughter's wedding. if there is anyone who doesn't practice family values, it's tom delay.hey, where are the details about what kind of life support? just tossing that little tidbit in without the whole story is not fair.
and then you have the bush brothers. george w. bush, who couldn't be bothered to interrupt his 2001 crawford ranch photo-op vacation to try and prevent 9/11 after receiving red alert warnings, (what the heck is he talking about? the president knew about 9/11 ahead of time and just fiddled around on the ranch and let thousands of people die? that is ridiculous flew back from crawford to sign an unprecedented violation of the separation of powers law that would move the schiavo case to the federal courts. the rather glaring hypocrisy here was that george w. bush had signed a radically different kind of law while governor of texas, one that not only declared the spouse the person to decide (along with the doctor) if life support should be removed; he also allowed an option for doctors to remove life support from patients whose families did not have the means to pay for their care! now, that's some hypocrisy! (this is something i don't understand and need to read about further - cause if it is true it is hypocrital
and of course, bush loved it when he set the record for executing people in texas, killing more than 100,000 iraqishe doesn't love it - sheesh., avoiding funerals of the 1500 plus gis killed in iraq, reducing health services to veterans, and cutting medicaid, among other deathly actions (this is all controversial stuff and has other explanations - read kevin's posts about imagined cuts. but save one clinically brain dead woman (she isn't clinically brain dead! and bush is a hero to the people who are only for life for "saved" white christians and unborn fetuses (bullpucky! . everyone else can pretty much rot in hell. heck, an infant was allowed to die in a texas hospital under bush's lone star state law -- against his mother's wishes -- while the schiavo case was gaining full steam among the republicans. pook kid, if god wanted to save him, he would have been born a white christian! again - red hot rhetoric ..
as for jeb, his not so discreet angling for the 2008 presidential nomination, led him to send law enforcement officials to seize terry schiavo, according to the miami herald. fortunately for the rule of law, the local police turned jeb's troops away since they were violating a judge's court order. the next day jeb denied the whole thing, even though the miami herald claimed three sources. oh, and why is jeb so interested in keeping a woman in a 15-year vegetative state from being at peace with her maker when he has decimated his state's medicaid budget that helps keep kids and seniors alive and run a scandal-ridden department of children and family services? it's the bush hypocrisy stupid.
of course, heart surgeon dr. bill frist once fessed up to rounding up stray cats during his medical school days, euthanizing them, and then practicing dissection on them. that was just the beginning of strange medical practices for dr. frist. he was able to diagnose, he claims, terry schiavo's condition from a videotape, even though the doctor appointed by jeb bush and all her attending doctors disagree with his rosy prognosis. it wouldn't be that dr. frist was looking to tie up the support of the loony wing of the religious right as he seeks the presidency in 2008, would it? guess, if he wins, we won't have cats running loose around the white house. (this writer could write for looney tunes himself
and of course, unknown to most of the public, the schiavo parents were being assisted by an army of pr luminaries from the so-called pro-life fanatics, including the infamous randall terry. a group of friars from minnesota became one of the main visual images of the schiavo parents' "religiosity." but, strangely enough, one of the friars admitted that they "pulled the plug" on the founder of their small group when he became seriously ill "seriously ill" not brain damaged and healthy like terri. brother john kaspari told the tampa bay tribune, "he would have required intubation to keep him alive," kaspari said. "we chose not to go that route. his lungs were full of fluid." intubation folks - not a feeding tube.
are any of these religious right fanatics not hypocrites? are they clinically delusional? are they dangerous?
perhaps, all of the above.
judge greer, who allowed the removal of terri schiavo's feeding tube, has received death threats and is under armed guard, even though he is a loyal republican and observant baptist. "kill for life," we guess. just like the anti-choice terrorists who claim they are preserving the sanctity of life by killing doctors who perform abortions.i'm completely against the criminals who make death threats but they do not represent me or most christians
in a farcical side note on "the shooters for life" contingent of the gop, one man was arrested after trying to hold up a gun store with a box cutter. he wanted a gun to shoot his way into "rescuing" terri schiavo. the gun store owner, with plenty of guns to spare, pointed a handgun at "terri's savior" and told the guy to lie down like a good puppy.
we are a nation gone mad, aren't we?
after all, the man who pulled the plug on democracy in 2000proven untrue . . many times, antonin scalia, is running around the country campaigning to be chief justice of the supreme court. even many democrats praise his alleged "brilliance."
but we aren't impressed. first of all, he stole the presidency for george w. bush again, proven untrue. . . . that's the work of a thug, not a genius.
second of all, he thinks america lives under divine law. if so, he should be a priest or legal counsel at his beloved opus dei, not a supreme court chief justice. this country is a democracy not a church.
finally, he recently told a synagogue audience that jews would be safer under a christian nation. uh, antonin, didn't hitler build up the nazi era in germany in the name of christ? just a lesson to you, nino, the jews didn't fare too well in that christian nation. god, the guy ought to read a history book, instead of "rapture."
and people think this guy is bright.
he's just another muscle guy for the gop.
terry schiavo, you deserved better.
but when you have a nation run by a party whose only real value is hypocrisy in pursuit of the maintenance of power, that's the barnum and bailey environment you get.making a blanket statement like that is telling of the writer's intellect
no one blames you for a thing. we just wish you final peace.
it's the rest of us who are daily at risk from this freak sideshow run amuck, with the carnival barkers operating out of the white house. "

and those on the other side aren't just as adamant about their views? this is a two-way street with extremes on both sides.

sorry tweety - this guy is nuts, not to mention meanspirited. but good try.

steph

begalli · Mar 29, 2005

I'm here listening to MSNBC while sitting here at my computer and I cannot BELIEVE the ignorance surrounding this situation. Once again, the media is perpetuating misinformation and falsehoods.

Terri is communicating now?

She's trying to talk?

Her nuerological condition has suddenly improved in the last couple of days?

They're gonna give her an overdose of morphine because "that's what hospice's do to kill their patients?"

Geesh! People are so damn stupid. They speak without any background or education AT ALL on these complicated scientific and medical issues. Of course there will be hundreds of thousands if not millions who will buy into these lies!

And then there's the commercial advertising an upcoming show on MSNBC:

In the announcers most evil and deepest villainous voice - "Hospice. Keith Oberman takes you into a world you've never seen."

Like it's something that needs to be exposed.

Many already don't understand hospice. It's going to take years for the entire concept of hospice to recover from this.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Mar 29, 2005

Today, a resident other than Terri Shiavo passed away at this hospice.
According to news reports, as a direct result of the "circus" going on outside the hospice, the granddaughter of the resident who passed away was unable to get past security at the hospice and to the bedside of her grandfather in time.
This is unbelievable.
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/22/Southpinellas/Pain_of_publicity_int.shtml

Spouse has a good friend, who is also an anquaintence of mine, whose mother just moved to this hospice. There are prescious few inpatient hospice beds in town, so he didn't have much of a choice. He says the traffic is dreadful and it's such an ordeal to see his mother. It's bad enough to have to deal with his mother who is bleeding internally from terminal cancer, I feel bad for him. But he has a very good attitude about it.

Another friend who is an executive with hospice says it's interfering with day to day business meetings. Sad as it sounds they are so looking forward for this to end.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Mar 29, 2005

and those on the other side aren't just as adamant about their views? this is a two-way street with extremes on both sides.
sorry tweety - this guy is nuts, not to mention meanspirited. but good try.
steph

i was merely trying to show how extreme both sides of the position can be. which you noted . i'm not buying into this guys ideas either, 100% because as you say it contains many blanket statements and presumptions. but some of the articles you guys have posted are just as nuts to me as this guy is to you. :)

Tweety, BSN, RN · Mar 29, 2005

Don't turn this into a Bush bashing tirade.

Not my intentions at all.

UnewmeB4 · Mar 29, 2005

Michael has requested that the Medical Examiner perform an autopsy on Terri when she dies. I respect him for that.

lpn3324 · Mar 29, 2005

I also applaud Michael for requesting an autopsy. I am so tired of this case and all the mis-information that is being thrown around. Whatever happened to HIPPA regulations ? I feel more sorry for the other patient's and families,at this point. The purpose of a hospice in my understanding is to provide a peaceful transition to death,which they are now being denied

bugsbee · Mar 29, 2005

I'm so glad Michael has requested an autopsy. The parents of Terri have accused him of everything they, are such sad desperate people. It will be good to have it over and never have to hear of the Schindler's again.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Mar 29, 2005

"Terri Schiavo Was Just An Innocent Bystander To A Political, Elmer Gantry Circus Of GOP Political Opportunists And Religious Hucksters
But with the help of the infamous Randall Terry and the GOP hypocrisy machine, a case long ago settled by the courts, was hijacked to advance Republican fortunes and fill the pocket books of celebrity fundamentalist preachers.
And of course, unknown to most of the public, the Schiavo parents were being assisted by an army of PR luminaries from the so-called pro-life fanatics, including the infamous Randall Terry. A group of friars from Minnesota became one of the main visual images of the Schiavo parents' "religiosity." But, strangely enough, one of the friars admitted that they "pulled the plug" on the founder of their small group when he became seriously ill. Brother John Kaspari told the Tampa Bay Tribune, "He would have required intubation to keep him alive," Kaspari said. "We chose not to go that route. His lungs were full of fluid."
Are any of these religious right fanatics NOT hypocrites?

Everytime that I see the phrase, "Family spokesman, Randall Terry" in the media, I know that the case has fallen into the depthes of hypocrisy.

Randalll Terry, who wanted to bar divorce for any but biblical grounds and campaigned for office by slamming his opposition for being divorced, was granted a divorce from Cindy Dean in 2001. The reason and I quote,"I was tired of the marriage".

Funny, that I never saw that as biblical grounds...it doesn't fall under abandonment, abuse, adultery or violation of pauline privilege.

Mr. Terry, who spoke out against "liberal divorce laws" complained that immoral men used them to discard older wives and trade them in for "newer models", married is much younger former housekeeper/assistant, now.

While he reported that he was undergoing longterm extensive counseling before remarrying, his remarriage came within 7 monthes of his divorce.

After counseling and censuring Mr.Terry for "unbiblical" behavior, the Landmark Church was sued by him. They blew the whistle on some very unethical behavior by him.

See, Mr. Terry lost a number of legal suits and had funds confiscated to pay those suits (predominately to planned parenthood). He reorganized Operation Rescue to an organization Operation Save America, to escape paying the suits. He then pleaded poverty in a fund raising letter to his faithful followers, that he merely wanted funds "to care for his family and put a roof over his head". The money rolled in to provide him "with a roof over his head".

He neglected to mention that the house was for his new wife, not for his deserted wife and family. He also neglected to mention that it was in Florida (where you can keep your house, despite bankruptcy and many lawsuits...it generally cannot be taken from you ...no matter it's value). He neglected to mention his divorce or the circumstances. He also neglected that he had already closed on a property in excess of $432,000 (data varies on that) prior to sending out this plea of proverty.

In that part of Florida, $432,000 buys a heck of a lot more than a simple roof over your head.

Landmark and OSA sent out disclaimers after finding out that he was divorced. Thus, his lawsuit.

In addition the Terrys adopted some children to "save"them from their circumstances. Recently, the son came out as a homosexual. Randall has publicly said that he bars Jamiel from entering his home, "because he might take pictures of his family" and they might be published. That he did not want his family's privacy invaded in that manner.

He also offered to pay for Jamiel's "reparative"therapy to "cure" his homosexuality. To my knowledge, Jamiel has not indicated his wish to be "cured" it taken him up on the offer.

This man has about as much business speaking on morality and "family values" as Larry Flynt does.