Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped "allowing her to starve to death" The Vatican says " To starve her to death is pitiless" Most everyone agrees that it is one's right to refuse to initiate artificial feeding but somehow this situation "is different" How? The patient "starves to death " in both cases-so why has this one galvanized the WORLD? My husband read me a quote from the Bible -forgive me because I can't remember it in detail-it was something along the lines that a woman marries and leaves her father's house and her husband becomes her family....My husband is my POA I hope no-one in my family questions his motives -He KNOWS exactly what I want....I can't question her husbands motives-I know that some suspect foul play and state the results of a bone scan support this...That bone scan was obtained 53 months after she went into her coma-after her body suffered the effects of her eating disorders for a number of years.... Her present level of responsiveness does not pertain to this matter IMHO-she CAN'T eat naturally--she did not ever want to "be kept alive like that " and she can't state otherwise at this point...So- #1 can someone PLEASE make me see why this case is" DIFFERENT" and #2 How do YOU support your patients and their loved ones when they are agonizing over this decision? ONe thing I always ask is "Did your loved one ever give you any idea of what they would want if something like this happened" and if they did then I advocate that stance for that pt as much possible.......I believe that death is the last great trip we'll go on and we should PLAN it as much as possible.The greatest GIFT we can give to our loved ones is an itinerary...........

Specializes in LTC/Behavioral/ Hospice.
Heck, why not just put a pillow over her face? :chair:

steph

Exactly. What is merciful about this kind of death? If they are intent upon killing her, at least let it be painless and quick.

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I think that thing that bothers me most is not the fact that people are fighting over Terri's life but the way that she is expected to die. She is to be deprived of water and food. To me this is slow, possibly painful and barbaric. If I were to euthanize a beloved pet by this method I could be jailed and fined if convicted for animal cruelty and neglect. This will take days of being dehydrated as well as hungry. Someone in an earlier post felt that dehydration was considered painless. Not so IMHO. I have seen dehydrated animals from abuse cases and they are in mental anguish looking, begging, and desiring a drink of water for their dry, agonized bodies. I would also imagine that the pain would be horrible as the end became nearer as the body tissues dried out. I know that when I have worked for hours in the hot, summer sun without much water, I have severe muscle cramping, dizziness, dry painful eys, and other painful aspects of dehydration. I cannot imagine going for days feeling like that. Why not deprive Terri of oxygen? The suffering lasts for only minutes instead of days.

Fuzzy

Yesterday, in Southwest Florida, approximately 140 miles south of Terri's residence, a man was arrested for starving his cattle and is being held on $100,000.00 bond. How ironic.

I certainly would hope that the nurses and the CNA who signed affidavits DID report the neglect. Florida has a mandatory reporter statute. In the affidavits it's mentioned that nursing notes were removed from the chart and destroyed. If true, that is a criminal offense. How could that have gone on for so long without being reported? Any facility recieving State & Federal monies (Medicare/Medicaid) is surveyed at least annually. The Agency for Health Care Administration in Florida regularly receives complaints regarding abuse and neglect and is obligated to investigate each and every allegation. If the information in the affidavits is true, every person from the facility adminisrator down to nursing staff should be investigated for sanctioning the neglect and lack of services. If the facility is certified by Medicare they have the burden of proving that they provided all necessary services and treatments for Terri to maintain her highest practicable status. Where have the regulatory agencies been? I've seen investigations started without a fomal complaint because some one in Tallahasse read a newspaper article about a facility. Surely they've looked into this. I'm not writing this to defend the husband. I believe in written advanced directives and I for one would not be part of pulling a tube based on heresay, which is what Terri's "Advance Directives" are based upon. Heresay evidence is not supposed to be allowed in court cases as far as I know.

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>>>Heck, why not just put a pillow over her face?

I'm glad to see that you have read 'in between my lines'.

Fuzzy

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Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.

It makes me sick to think of what if's in this case....what if he is just money hungry...what if the parents just can't let go...what if Terri suffers horribly until she dies but is unable to express it.... But what it all comes down to is that according to Florida law this woman is PVS. The husband is the guardian and he has the legal right to make this decision. That is why the court keeps deciding with him even though all these politicians are involved. Personally, I would not want a law in place that would REQUIRE me to live on a feeding tube. Each case is different. We will probably never know what exactly happened to Terri and what the real intentions of everyone involved are. This attempt to keep the feeding tube in place is just as cruel if its is merely for their own selfishness. I have read several documents on removing artificial hydration from a terminally ill and severyly brain damaged person and it is not like starving a healthy person....or animal for that matter as some have compared it to. It is actually a natural process of dying that people go through that stimulates the brain to release endorphins to create a state of peace and euphoria as you die. It works sort of like accupuncture that people view as barbaric and seems like it would be excruciating....but actually has the opposite effect. If this woman's family is so religious then why do they not let her go? Because they believe her death will be painful and they are not ready to let go of her....some could say that is almost selfish but I think it is natural. But if they love her they know she will receive no better care than in the Kingdom of God.

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Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.
Yesterday, in Southwest Florida, approximately 140 miles south of Terri's residence, a man was arrested for starving his cattle and is being held on $100,000.00 bond. How ironic.

I certainly would hope that the nurses and the CNA who signed affidavits DID report the neglect. Florida has a mandatory reporter statute. In the affidavits it's mentioned that nursing notes were removed from the chart and destroyed. If true, that is a criminal offense. How could that have gone on for so long without being reported? Any facility recieving State & Federal monies (Medicare/Medicaid) is surveyed at least annually. The Agency for Health Care Administration in Florida regularly receives complaints regarding abuse and neglect and is obligated to investigate each and every allegation. If the information in the affidavits is true, every person from the facility adminisrator down to nursing staff should be investigated for sanctioning the neglect and lack of services. If the facility is certified by Medicare they have the burden of proving that they provided all necessary services and treatments for Terri to maintain her highest practicable status. Where have the regulatory agencies been? I've seen investigations started without a fomal complaint because some one in Tallahasse read a newspaper article about a facility. Surely they've looked into this. I'm not writing this to defend the husband. I believe in written advanced directives and I for one would not be part of pulling a tube based on heresay, which is what Terri's "Advance Directives" are based upon. Heresay evidence is not supposed to be allowed in court cases as far as I know.

It is not considered heresay because he has legal guardianship and whether she said it or not he is granted the right by law to make ALL decisions of her care.
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I question the husbands motives. It is difficult to be on the outside looking in on this case. I however feel that if there were not written words on what she would want done if she was to go into a vegitative state, then the husband should have the say. I do however do not think in this case the husband should die. He is with another woman, has a family and has "moved on." If I had a husband that was with another woman, I would have divorced him along time ago therefore leaving the parents to decided. These cases are not black and white, none of them every will be. It's a shame that there has been such termoil for the families. I pray that she peacfully goes to God

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It is not considered heresay because he has legal guardianship and whether she said it or not he is granted the right by law to make ALL decisions of her care.

In our society, NO ONE is given such an ultimate right by law. In every situation, decisions -- especially life or death ones, such as in Ms. Schiavo's case -- are subject to review, evaluation, and due process.

For example, parents have "legal guardianship" over their minor children. But if the parent abuses a child, then that action must be answered to. Michael Schiavo has no ULTIMATE right to make decisions for Ms. Schiavo and her care. Most especially, he has such right when he stands to gain by his decision about her care.

Jim Huffman, RN

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Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.
In our society, NO ONE is given such an ultimate right by law. In every situation, decisions -- especially life or death ones, such as in Ms. Schiavo's case -- are subject to review, evaluation, and due process.

For example, parents have "legal guardianship" over their minor children. But if the parent abuses a child, then that action must be answered to. Michael Schiavo has no ULTIMATE right to make decisions for Ms. Schiavo and her care. Most especially, he has such right when he stands to gain by his decision about her care.

Jim Huffman, RN

I am not saying he has the right...i am saying he has the legal right according to Florida law. This case has gone to court several times and the Judge has ruled in his favor each time.

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_________________

She has NOT been proven brain dead. Even the husband admits to that. His point is that she is brain DAMAGED and in a vegetative state. That is not the same thing.

You are correct of course we should watch our terms. 'Persistent vegetative state' is undoubtedly the correct medical term term. She is breathing thus has some brainstem function. Its much easier to let someone go if they are not breathing, obviously, but I look at the bigger picture: quality of life.

This woman would die on her own without people continuously tending to her, feeding, turning, cleaning, changing diapers. How many of us would want our animals living like this? She has been dead many years IMHO. Her 'shell' has been kept alive via a tube by selfish people, IMHO.

Lots of $$ is being funnelled out of our welfare system for care and feeding of human shells/ vegetables and its a real shame IMO. I believe we've gotten way off track in our attempts to 'save lives' at all costs. But...follow the $$$...healthcare has a vested interested in this...

If anything I hope this issue has raised public awareness about the need for advanced directives.

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You said what I wanted to say better than I might have.

I question his motives.

Last time she was removed from food/water, her parents wanted a priest to giver her last rites. The husband refused.

There has been a sworn statement from Terri's nurse that her husband came into the room and asked, "is the b*tch dead yet?" and "I am going to be rich!"

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How come some religions (I'm thinking mostly Judeo-Christian) would have us believe that heaven +/or the afterlife is so wonderful, but the people practicing these religions are in no hurry to get there?!?! Why are they afraid of death?

Also...if heaven/afterlife is so great, why does death (sometimes) hurt so much?

Shouldn't it be easier to get to whatever waits for us?

Sorry to stray off topic, but after reading some of these posts from some people worring about Terri suffering from a horrible, painful death from dehydration and then some about 'going with G*d', it leaves me confused. :confused:

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On CNN.com just now, her parents have managed to get congress/senate? someone to pass a bill and the pres. is expected to sign it basically they will be re-inserting her feeding tube until her parents have time for an appeal and the case will be moved to federal court.

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