Article: Paramedics equal to RNs

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In an article published on the major EMS website, EMS1, an article claims that Paramedics have more education than nurses and, through unbelievable math, are nearly as qualified as a nurse with CCRN and CEN certifications.

Why paramedics are qualified emergency care providers

This article is making the rounds on Facebook as Paramedics advocate to practice with similar or greater autonomy than RNs in the hospital environment.

Specializes in critical care.

I think a paramedic could do ACLS meds and telemetry, but I also don't know what else they'd do beyond that.

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I think a paramedic could do ACLS meds and telemetry, but I also don't know what else they'd do beyond that.

I agree, they would be great performing those activities and maybe more but I am confused about how much more their scope could realistically change.

Paramedics are great at the ACLS skills as you mention and could function partly on rapid response teams and partly under an RN's direction for follow-up care when there services are not required on the teams? Not sure. I just can't see how it works to provide them fully with their own patients/ responsibilities just like the RN without completely juggling the requirements and accepted ideas of professional scope of practice.

Also, I would like to point out that while you can become an RN with an associates degree in nursing (as long as you pass the NCLEX) this path is becoming less accepted in the environments we're talking about. Nationally speaking, a bachelors of science in nursing is close to a requirement for many of these inpatient/ED positions.

I'd be interested to see how this gets implemented in Texas.

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Also, I would like to point out that while you can become an RN with an associates degree in nursing (as long as you pass the NCLEX) this path is becoming less accepted in the environments we're talking about. Nationally speaking, a bachelors of science in nursing is close to a requirement for many of these inpatient/ED positions.

I'd be interested to see how this gets implemented in Texas.

According to the many discussions on this forum, the ADN RN is still in demand.

6:49 am by ixchel, BSN, RN

I think a paramedic could do ACLS meds and telemetry, but I also don't know what else they'd do beyond that.

It seems very few on this forum have any clue about what a Paramedic can do and what medications they carry. It goes way beyond just "ACLS". Who do you think gives the paralytics for intubation on an ambulance and the pain medications? Who manages all the IVs on CCT between hospitals? The Paramedic. Maybe some should get to know what a Paramedic can do before making comments.

Here are some protocols for EMS providers in the states including those for individual agencies. Please read so you have a better idea of what a Paramedic can do. Maybe some are confusing a Paramedic with an EMT-Basic who essentially provides first aid and transports.

EMS Protocols

Austin

http://atcomdce.org/files/COGs2015/Master%20COG%20Document%2002.04.15.pdf

Houston

http://www.hfdmd.org/PTCAREGUIDELINESNov2014.pdf

These are the Bills in Texas.

HB 2020 (Rep. Mando Martinez, D-Weslaco)

SB 1899 (Senator Donna Campbell,

R-New Braunfels)

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Specializes in Neurosurgery, Neurology.

I'm wondering, what exactly will the role be of these paramedics in the ED? Why is this necessary when there are already techs, RNs, PAs/NPs, RTs, residents, and attending physicians? From an earlier post, it seems as if this is envisioned as medics being able to "do" RT, RN, etc? Does that even make sense?

So, how would this play out in real life?

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Specializes in critical care.
According to the many discussions on this forum, the ADN RN is still in demand.

6:49 am by ixchel, BSN, RN

It seems very few on this forum have any clue about what a Paramedic can do and what medications they carry. It goes way beyond just "ACLS". Who do you think gives the paralytics for intubation on an ambulance and the pain medications? Who manages all the IVs on CCT between hospitals? The Paramedic. Maybe some should get to know what a Paramedic can do before making comments.

Here are some protocols for EMS providers in the states including those for individual agencies. Please read so you have a better idea of what a Paramedic can do. Maybe some are confusing a Paramedic with an EMT-Basic who essentially provides first aid and transports.

EMS Protocols

Austin

http://atcomdce.org/files/COGs2015/Master%20COG%20Document%2002.04.15.pdf

Houston

http://www.hfdmd.org/PTCAREGUIDELINESNov2014.pdf

These are the Bills in Texas.

HB 2020 (Rep. Mando Martinez, D-Weslaco)

SB 1899 (Senator Donna Campbell,

R-New Braunfels)

I appreciate you taking time to help enlighten us. I genuinely have no idea what your scope of practice is, and conversations like this one do make me wonder. Unfortunately, my state (Maryland) has a terrible system for presenting their laws. But, I do have time tomorrow that I think I'll use to dig.

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Specializes in critical care.
I'm wondering, what exactly will the role be of these paramedics in the ED? Why is this necessary when there are already techs, RNs, PAs/NPs, RTs, residents, and attending physicians? From an earlier post, it seems as if this is envisioned as medics being able to "do" RT, RN, etc? Does that even make sense?

So, how would this play out in real life?

I like the idea of them being implemented into rapid response. However, I'm not sure their role would be different from the RN.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.

I am not an ER or ICU nurse, but I can't imagine a paramedic taking on a full load of patients in the ER. The paramedics chose, I presume, the profession due to a vision of it being a high-adrenaline job that literally saves lives with lots of downtime between. In the ER, you get all kinds, and nursing's scope is much more than just saving lives. I can imagine that they don't want to be nurses...they just want the "fun" stuff.

Sorry, that's a waste of money.

Anyway, I don't think they'd last long in a fulll-on nursing job. if they get the bill passed and start working in an ER, they'll soon find that their scope as a paramedic becomes limited in-hospital (pissing off a few MDs along the way), and the nursing scope isn't what they want to do (pissing off a few RNs along the way).

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.
I like the idea of them being implemented into rapid response. However, I'm not sure their role would be different from the RN.

And the question remains about what they would do between the RRTs. That's why it's a waste of money when we already have the staff that does RRTs and more.

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Specializes in Emergency.
{snip}

It seems very few on this forum have any clue about what a Paramedic can do and what medications they carry. It goes way beyond just "ACLS". Who do you think gives the paralytics for intubation on an ambulance and the pain medications? Who manages all the IVs on CCT between hospitals? The Paramedic. Maybe some should get to know what a Paramedic can do before making comments.

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When discussing RSI, you're still in the ACLS realm.

Zofran for nausea, ativan for seizures, morphine for trauma pain, other than those, I believe we're right back at ACLS meds. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The CCT RN manages the iv's-meds, not the medic. At least in NY/NJ. Maybe not in TX.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.

I have a hard time believing that medics working in an ED would want to deal with the more mundane tasks nurses have to handle. I could easily see them trying to fob those things off on the nursing staff.

If they want to work in the ED, then they need to be willing to do all parts of patient care, not just the "fun" stuff.

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Specializes in Neurosurgery, Neurology.

What with RNs, techs, PAs/NPs, RTs, residents, attendings, etc., what will they be doing?

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Specializes in Infection Prevention, Public Health.

The real issue here is that RNs are having difficulty finding jobs. Of course RNs are not going to embrace the idea of making a Bad employment situation even worse. In the 1960s, the nurse practitioner movement got off to a very rocky start. Physicians did NOT welcome the competition and, to this day, NPs battle the AMA over issues of supervision and prescribing privileges. In the beginning educational requirements for NPs could be less than a BSN. Now a MSN is the minimum with Doctoral programs becoming the minimum standard in some states.

Another skill set which paramedics may struggle with in a hospital setting is being responsible for multiple patients simultaneously. Plus you have to work with multiple disciplines.

I would never dream of equating myself as being equal to a paramedic. I don't have those skills. I think feathers would be ruffled if I said I think RNs should also be considered paramedics. RN minimum education standards of the BSN has become much more frequently expected in the tight economy. Paramedics, even those with associate degrees, will not get much play in this market. I would encourage paramedics to enter schools of nursing. We would welcome you. Someday, I may look into the training I would need to become a paramedic.

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