Is it just me...or have you also noticed a significant drop in the number of applicants applying for these nursing schools, especially at the BSN levels...but including ADN's and LPN's?!
I ask this question because, I remember years ago on this very site, pre-nursing applicants would attend information meetings, and come back and post some astronomical numbers of applicants who had filed. Along with that, they would post some ridiculous numbers of years you had to sit on a wait-list pool of applicants. Numbers would be like, 600 to 1,580 potential applicants, but taking only 55-100, somewhere in that neighborhood...with a waiting list of 3-5 years away. Now you hear 200-300 applicants applied, maybe 58 taking... and sometimes no wait-list at all...maybe a roll over to the next application year's date!
However, recently you hear someone on this site (threads) being so sad on their school's threads, because they were put on a wait-list...and approximately three weeks later they are back on this site...yelling, Wow Yep Yay...I got in, they accepted me off the wait- list. Is applicants just getting smarter, and just applying at as many schools as possible...thereby decreasing that wait-list...and decreasing the numbers?
Do you think the demand is decreasing, so much so, because there has been so many nurses that have graduated within the period of 2002-2011, that the market has been so over saturated, and not been able to accommodate that much of an increase in numbers of applicants in our field?
Do you think the school are purposely attempting to make the requirements so competitive that it makes it easier to persuade the applicants to go elsewhere, thereby, discouraging and decreasing the numbers of applicants to apply. If this is so...I agree...we want the best of the best working on us...that is, if that is the schools true and actual reasoning. And...I would love that title of being 'A Great Nurse'.
I say this only because so many nurse instructors and educators on these threads, have indicated quite clearly, that most(some often) 4.0 GPA's nurses have great memory skills, but can not implement them to critical thinking modes. Which don't necessarily make them the best nurses. I guess they would know..they are the ones who are the educators who oversee their training.
What do you think is happening to the nursing field applicants numbers...or is it just the bottom line...Money, and the increase COST to attend nursing schools?
This article pertains to California, where I live, but the same thing might be happening in other states, too. If you don't want to read it, it states what another poster in this thread said: nursing school is more competitive because there is a shortage of nursing educators, who can earn more money working in hospitals. Not only is it difficult to get accepted into nursing school, but it's difficult to get a job in California because every semester, there is a flood of new graduates, and nurses who are at retirement age are opting to continue working, so there are less jobs for new graduates.
Hi ahimsa_L, this is a 'Great Article'! I hope everyone reads it. Thanks you.
When people like you brings fact supported articles to this nursing community...it empowers everyone with knowledge, whether it effects their state or not.
I sent the article to J Friday who has posted on this site recently...I hope you do not mind.
In Northern Nevada, several of the schools I am familiar with have been adding requirements to their application process. Things like having a CNA license, more math classes, having to take the TEAS on site at the college, residency requirements, etc. I get the feeling this is an effort to decrease their applicant pool and to focus on serving the local population and eventually, the local hospitals better.
I personally like the CNA requirement because it sounds like in the past there have been students who have gotten into nursing school but thought for some reason they wouldn't ever have to do direct patient care. The CNA requirement makes sure students who get in do indeed have a basic level of experience working with patients as well as have some very useful skills when they get into clinicals.
When you think about the amount of time colleges have to spend reviewing hundreds of qualified applications, that takes a lot of work hours. For schools that constantly receive an abundance of applications and end up spending a lot of staff time to whittle down the list to their final 30 or 60 or whatever they accept, this is a lot of work that costs the program and school money. I can definitely see a school having an interest in removing the least desirable applicants by simply increasing the requirements for application.
You mentioned Wayne State removing requirements. Well, that's Wayne State, in Detroit. There are regional differences and you can't apply a one size fits all argument to your initial question.
The Cal State system has been understaffed and underfunded for years, actually coming up on a decade now. There are still hundreds of ADN programs across the state Board of Registered Nursing - RN Programs and many of them are accepting more students based upon qualifications instead of a simple lottery system (meaning students with medical experience and good grades are being accepted at a higher rate) rather than simple luck in the lottery system. This is the way it should be imho.
In Northern Nevada, several of the schools I am familiar with have been adding requirements to their application process. Things like having a CNA license, more math classes, having to take the TEAS on site at the college, residency requirements, etc. I get the feeling this is an effort to decrease their applicant pool and to focus on serving the local population and eventually, the local hospitals better."
..."For schools that constantly receive an abundance of applications and end up spending a lot of staff time to whittle down the list to their final 30 or 60 or whatever they accept, this is a lot of work that costs the program and school money. I can definitely see a school having an interest in removing the least desirable applicants by simply increasing the requirements for application."
..."You mentioned Wayne State removing requirements. Well, that's Wayne State, in Detroit. There are regional differences and you can't apply a one size fits all argument to your initial question."
..."The Cal State system has been understaffed and underfunded for years, actually coming up on a decade now. There are still hundreds of ADN programs across the state Board of Registered Nursing - RN Programs and many of them are accepting more students based upon qualifications instead of a simple lottery system (meaning students with medical experience and good grades are being accepted at a higher rate) rather than simple luck in the lottery system. This is the way it should be imho.
Hi SweetCorn, thanks for bringing great information about your State's requirements for applying at your nursing schools there in Northern Nevada...we all appreciate knowing what the other States pre-reqs are so that there is a flood of choices to piggyback on, just in case we opt to go to another state. Thanks so much!
However, when I spoke about Wayne State University here in Michigan, I was speaking to another person's post (LeapBaby) on this thread...only on our requirements...at only one school...and only in a 2nd degree BSN program...for the only purpose of giving information...only about comparison information...as you have done. My responses are not to support my argument to my "Original Post" (OP), 'Are nursing schools saturated, less applying,' but only to provoke thought and opinions...and to get clarifications on everyone's post... only to keep everyone on the same topic...if needed.
As you can see, there has been a lot of great, intuitive, thought provoking, fact checking information on this thread...which I believe is the purpose of this site. I hope to stay neutral in my position and not take it personal...whatever anyone says. Although, I will continue to complement anyone who I feel has made a great point...whether I agree or not!
The reason WSU was mentioned in my post to her, was to clarify in a question mode, how important she thought the TEAS and the Volunteer as a pre-reqs would have an effect on the number of applicants applying to nursing schools...which I might add LeapBaby covered it very well for her State.
And...your point was very good also about CNA experiences. The reason WSU canceled their Volunteer shadowing BSN was that they found that a lot of hospitals in our area refused to allow volunteers, because it was a high liability for safety and privacy laws issues(Hippa). With their (WSU) requirements the volunteer shadowing had to be done only under a BSN, which the majority were in the hospital...and the forms had to been documented and signed by a BSN only. By the way, this for only the 2nd degree program, as mentioned. They also canceled the interview, for the 2nd degree BSN program only.
SweetCom, keep in mind you are speaking of your State...this thread is for all states regarding numbers of applicants applying and over saturated nursing schools, where there seems to be no shortage or even if they have a shortage of nurses. Your information is very informative...thank you.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
@Im_no_Genius_but Well since I'm an LVN I like the bridge option. With the push for BSN prepared nurses the straight path to BSN works as well. I know the BSN program near me is increasing in applicants every year & VERY competitive. So if one can't get into a BSN program sometimes going the LVN or ADN route is easier & cheaper.
Maybe the 4.0 GPAs the instructors you talked to were fresh out of high school or haven't had healthcare volunteer experience? There is something to be said about the more 'seasoned' in life-experience 'non-traditional' BSN or ADN students. And, it is about the numbers, too. Nursing schools are businesses and just like any other business, they want to stay open and reputable (accredited). So yeah, they want that 100% NCLEX pass rate.
^ I suspect THIS is much of the crux; it depends on the area and the trend of what hospitals and educators want to see; I have found in my experience that educators LOVE the "well rounded individual"-I was a CNA and a LPN prior to my BSN-I have almost 14 years of healthcare experience; I have seen eyes light up from potential educators, as well as recruiters when they looked at my CV-and are starting to get choosy; the time to flock to "where the money is-in nursing" is starting to end; and I am glad for it, personally...you have to have some type of strong work ethic to thrive in this business and not everyone can hack it, regardless of GPA.
The issue for NCLEX passage can be one of some pause, however, I went to a university where the NCLEX was 70-80% but my class had a 96% class rate; I think it depends on the applicant pool; but then again with nursing, you never know what to expect in terms of how one will grasp the NCLEX; I felt my nursing program was pretty good and well rounded; as well as rigorous in terms of helping understand the concept of nursing theory and the nursing model-granted, I went to a diploma program as a practical nurse, so I knew in terms what "rigorous" nursing school was all about.
In my area, there hasn't been a nursing shortage in about two decades; the amount of hospitals decreased by 50%, as well as here are now larger health systems in play; I have always been able to land a job with clientele with complex medical issues; so I have always remained marketable; I have also ventured in independent contracting; I have been able to thrive in an area by thinking outside of the box and playing the gambit of areas of nursing; nursing is everywhere; it has been able to make me be a candidate consistently for a hospital job, IF I want it. I think there will be a place for more nurses; it has happened before and the upswing will happen again; right at this moment, there are plenty of nurses NOW to fill those positions when it happens again.
^ ..."the time to flock to "where the money is-in nursing" is starting to end; and I am glad for it, personally...you have to have some type of strong work ethic to thrive in this business and not everyone can hack it, regardless of GPA."
..."In my area, there hasn't been a nursing shortage in about two decades; the amount of hospitals decreased by 50%, as well as here are now larger health systems in play; I have always been able to land a job with clientele with complex medical issues; so I have always remained marketable; I have also ventured in independent contracting; I have been able to thrive in an area by thinking outside of the box and playing the gambit of areas of nursing; "
..."IF I want it. I think there will be a place for more nurses; it has happened before and the upswing will happen again; right at this moment, there are plenty of nurses NOW to fill those positions when it happens again."
Hi LadyFree28, Great comments...excellent internal view of the nursing field...presently and in the future!
I just had my nursing advisement and my advisor said only 70 qualified students where accepted into the program this year. usually there are 100+
Wow!!! VettechtoRn...did they give a reason why?! One would think that with all the people applying...that there had to be more than just 70 that qualified. What State are you in?
Specializes in Maternal Child, Home Health, Med/Surg.
I actually find this interesting. My near by school has been different as well. Normally, out of a point system of 19, 18-19 is accepted with a FEW 17's being admitted due to declines. However, this year, they expect several(the nursing coordinator released this info) 16's to get in, and possibly 15's.
She also said, there have been a lot less applicants than previous years.
Too bad for me! I'm one pre req down, but it is interesting.
Wow!!! VettechtoRn...did they give a reason why?! One would think that with all the people applying...that there had to be more than just 70 that qualified. What State are you in?
It could be that the school is seeing a weak demand for their graduatesor they do not have enough instructors or clinical placement sites.
I'm_no_Genius_but
101 Posts
Hi ahimsa_L, this is a 'Great Article'! I hope everyone reads it. Thanks you.
Nursing students being turned away amid faculty shortage in Cal State system
When people like you brings fact supported articles to this nursing community...it empowers everyone with knowledge, whether it effects their state or not.
I sent the article to J Friday who has posted on this site recently...I hope you do not mind.