Are nursing schools saturated, less applying?

unionnurse12 · Apr 12, 2014

Here in memphis each semester for the last few years (2010) every single friend of mine who has graduated with either an ADN or BSN has had a job offer within a month of passing the NCLEX. My best friend graduated with her ADN in Dec. 2012 and took her NCLEX in Feb. 2013 was employed by March 2013 making $29/hr. BUT this is a small city and we have a HUGE medical community roughly in the city each year between ADN / BSN programs maybe 450 students are accepted and by the time graduation happens they all don't make it.

I can only speak for my little area of the world and we DO have a shortage….They are adding on to the hospitals as fast as they can to keep up with the population

I'm_no_Genius_but · Apr 12, 2014

I'm a 'microfishe-aged' woman who has been getting my pre-reqs completed for nursing school in the Sacramento, CA area.
..."To answer your question about the apparent decrease in applicants, I believe we are seeing that in this area with all of our programs, but especially with the merit-based programs.
..."The application pool is filled with 3.5 GPA's and higher. Anyone who doesn't have a 3.5 GPA is left to wait it out in a lottery-based program... and those institutions are becoming few and far between. I also think a few are shying away from the profession because they hear paranoia-filled stories about the direction of healthcare after the ACA implementation... maybe?
..."It sounds like times are a'changin' and only the cream of the crop of pre-nursing students (high GPA/ high TEAS score/ work or volunteer experience) are getting into these programs. Personally, I'm okay with that. I worked my tail off to put myself in the position I'm in... and I would like any RN who treats me when I'm in a hospital to have done the same. :)
..."Sorry for the long rant... just a good thread! :)
*steps off the soapbox*

LeapBaby I welcome your post, that is what we are here for. You don't have to apologize for speaking out on what one believes, thank you. And...I hear you with that 'Microfiche-aged' quote.(smile) Also I like to congratulate you on your hard work.

However, If what you say is true about merit based 3.5 to 4.0 GPA's being the only ones getting in the nursing programs, would you then say that the nursing schools across the country are aware that there is no shortage nationwide, so they decrease the amount of applicants by increasing the GPA's, thereby reducing the pool of nursing number of applicants applying for the nursing programs?

Also, your GPA theory have me wondering if most of the educators on these nursing threads are wrong! Where they have stated many times, that most(some often) 4.0 GPA's have the book knowledge but lack the critical thinking ability to address the needs of a patient. Which eventually lead them to make another career change, because they can not raise to the occasion to what they thought nursing really was...when needed out there in the trenches, maybe causing a shortage.

Or?

Do you feel that it is all about the numbers, and to many nursing students could not pass the boards (NCLEX), so the nursing schools had to raise the

GPA's or they would not be accredited, because of all the failure rates?

I'm_no_Genius_but · Apr 12, 2014

Here in memphis each semester for the last few years (2010) every single friend of mine who has graduated with either an ADN or BSN has had a job offer within a month of passing the NCLEX. My best friend graduated with her ADN in Dec. 2012 and took her NCLEX in Feb. 2013 was employed by March 2013 making $29/hr. BUT this is a small city and we have a HUGE medical community roughly in the city each year between ADN / BSN programs maybe 450 students are accepted and by the time graduation happens they all don't make it.
I can only speak for my little area of the world and we DO have a shortage….They are adding on to the hospitals as fast as they can to keep up with the population

Thank you for clarifying for all of us! It may just depend on what state you live and work in, that could be the resounding factor on whether a need is there for an increase or decrease in the number of nursing applicants in each state.

I'm_no_Genius_but · Apr 12, 2014

I think different fields go through fads where they're considered THE business to get into, and nursing is on its downward slope and everyone will move onto something else soon enough.
..."I think when it first got to be such a popular major, it wasn't as competitive. Now it's very competitive and many students find they can't hack it when they're working on their prereqs, and that's another reason for drops in applications for nursing school.

ShelbyaStar you are right..."time comes and times go', and 'whats good today may not be good tomorrow'...it is called progress.

But..how has competitiveness changed applicants numbers? The nursing field has always been competitive to get into a program. But just here recently, you hear of a dramatic drop of applicants, yet the schools still keep putting them out there, like lost cattle, in the world of an over saturated market of graduate nurses.

Where and what I am hearing, here in Michigan, is that there are no job shortages for nurses, and the applicants for the nursing field has varied in comparison in numbers. By the way, this so cause need was projected to 2021.

Do you think the schools are more competitive because they were force to be, in lien of the high failure rate of the NCLEX, on rates of nursing students in the last past 5 years. Which has forced them to select only students that could potentially pass the boards, and keep them in accreditation standings?

dt70 · Apr 12, 2014

I'm a 'microfishe-aged' woman who has been getting my pre-reqs completed for nursing school in the Sacramento, CA area. I started in 2010 and have seen many of my classmates apply to various nursing schools since then.

While reading this I was thinking you started your pre-reqs during the microfishe years until the 2nd sentence. :wideyed:

With NCLEX changing, schools may change type of classes needed for pre-reqs, TEAS questions may be adaptive.

SweetCorn · Apr 12, 2014

I think applying a one size fits all statement, like "there is a nursing shortage" to the entire country in just about any line of work is not going to work that well.

Different regions have different needs and have different resources to fill those needs. The nursing market in coveted Northern California region is not the same as the less-coveted region of the southeast. California has lots of nursing schools to draw from as well as nurses from the rest of the country who want to work for good wages and under laws favorable to nurses. I live right on the California/Nevada border and work at a hospital in each state. There are significant differences in the staffing needs of these two hospitals and for most people, it comes down to pure economics. Working in Nevada = lower wages, fewer laws regarding patient and provider safety and more openings for nurses. Working in California, only 30 miles away = higher wages, more laws regarding patient and provider safety and fewer openings, with those being highly competitive.

It is a prospective students job to find out what placement rates are like at the programs they are looking at. If they apply to a school that not many of their graduates find work after finishing their program, and they finish in the bottom half of the group, then they should expect to have lower prospects for finding a job. I really think it is that simple.

Flexibility with getting into a program and landing that first job is key. If you aren't willing to spend a few years in a less desirable location in order to get that initial experience, then you have automatically reduced your chances for success as a new nurse. And this all comes back to researching your schools and the market you'll be graduating into .

NurseGirl525, ASN, RN · Apr 13, 2014

Our school makes us go through an information session before applying. It lets us know how rigorous the program is and tries to get you to question whether you think nursing is right for you. It doesn't out and out discourage you but it tries to make you think before applying and wasting money.

I live in an old GM town right outside of Indianapolis. The people here are all pretty much retired and now aging. Retirement homes are popping up everywhere and they need nurses. We have 2 hospitals in town and in the outlying areas more and more medical centers are popping up to help deal with the aging population up here. On the north side of Indianapolis, things are rapidly expanding. It is where everyone my age who works in Indy and makes a decent living goes to live. All brand new housing developments. Pharmacies and new medical pavilions going up all over the place. In the past year due to so much rapid expansion, 2 brand new hospitals opened up in one town. They are literally across the street from each other. There is just a huge demand for nurses right now especially on the north side of Indy and it's growing to up here. Our ER depts. in this town are severely understaffed. I honestly do not worry about getting a job when I get out of school. I know everyone on here says there is no nursing shortage but in some areas, they are in demand. Even the south side of Indy is expanding at a rapid pace. It really just depends on where you live.

LeapBaby · Apr 13, 2014

OP, I can only speak for Northern California, of course, but all public nursing schools (community college and state colleges) *require* at least a 3.2 GPA to even be considered for the program. Private schools like Samuel Merritt or National University accept down to a 2.9 GPA, but you are paying through the nose for tuition. Example: community college programs estimate their nursing schools will cost approx. $6,000 for the full 2 years (tests, insurances, books, tuition, uniforms, etc included). State colleges (CSU Sacramento) are approx. $3,500 per semester + books + uniforms + insurances, etc. so your total is about $25K-$30K for the TWO year BSN program (other CSUs can be 3 years). Private colleges are charging WELL over $60,000 for their BSN programs. The way I see it is that professors at private colleges will tell you what you want to hear because they want to tuition flowing through the door.

I know the professors at the colleges I attend (community college and CSU) all don't say there is a nursing shortage anymore. They say, "you can find a job after you graduate and pass NCLEX, but you can't be picky." As far as the GPA requirements, I believe it will be dwindling for ADN programs as more and more people realize you 'waste' a year if you get your ADN with the intention of doing BSN right after. I know many hospitals in NorCal will be requiring RNs to bridge to BSNs by 2020, so the BSN bridge programs will probably be next to become impacted. Most hospitals like UC Davis and Kaiser won't even look at you if you don't have your BSN. Schools want the best of the best students (high GPAs, high TEAS, volunteer hours) because they want to maintain good relationships with the hospitals they perform clinicals in. It also tells the school that you take your education seriously and you will do whatever it takes (no sleep, study 24/7, go to tutoring) to get what you need to know. It's true... some 4.0 students aren't cut out for applying what they know in a real world healthcare setting. But that is such a small percentage of students. Personally, I think professors need to say those types of things to keep morale up in the students that are there, keeping the competition up, and keeping them employed.

LeapBaby · Apr 13, 2014

Also I like to congratulate you on your hard work.

...your GPA theory have me wondering if most of the educators on these nursing threads are wrong! Where they have stated many times, that most(some often) 4.0 GPA's have the book knowledge but lack the critical thinking ability to address the needs of a patient. Which eventually lead them to make another career change, because they can not raise to the occasion to what they thought nursing really was...when needed out there in the trenches, maybe causing a shortage.

Or?

Do you feel that it is all about the numbers, and to many nursing students could not pass the boards (NCLEX), so the nursing schools had to raise the
GPA's or they would not be accredited, because of all the failure rates?

Thank you, I'm_no_Genius_but! :) I have worked really hard, and it comes somewhat at the expense of my family. If the nursing schools were more lenient on GPA, I wouldn't have been so determined to choose school over my husband & kids. But, in NorCal, it's simply not like that. Like I mentioned before, your GPA means almost 50% of your nursing school application here in NorCal.

Maybe the 4.0 GPAs the instructors you talked to were fresh out of high school or haven't had healthcare volunteer experience? There is something to be said about the more 'seasoned' in life-experience 'non-traditional' BSN or ADN students. And, it is about the numbers, too. Nursing schools are businesses and just like any other business, they want to stay open and reputable (accredited). So yeah, they want that 100% NCLEX pass rate.

I also agree with ShelbyaStar.... nursing is the fad career right now. It's created it's own demand just to say 'I'm a nursing student' and that primitive competitive drive between us will most likely never go away completely. I tutor A&P students at the community college and they are completely consumed with applying to nursing schools asap... it's like tunnel vision. I get it... I'm there too, but, not everyone has the time to take a breath, look up, and see the forest for the trees. It can be kinda discouraging, too. :-P

RunBabyRN · Apr 13, 2014

I think depending on what part of the country you live in would depend on if there is a nursing shortage or not. I think last time I looked each hospital where I'm from had over 50 RN position open.....We have close to 10 hospitals in the city

Open positions posted does not necessarily mean openings that are being filled or do not already have someone lined up for said job. There are postings here, too, but even applying to 100+ positions doesn't yield results without circumventing conventional means (aka applying online or through HR). You have to market yourself and usually get a job through someone you know in many places.

Polar_lime · Apr 13, 2014

Nursing students being turned away amid faculty shortage in Cal State system

This article pertains to California, where I live, but the same thing might be happening in other states, too. If you don't want to read it, it states what another poster in this thread said: nursing school is more competitive because there is a shortage of nursing educators, who can earn more money working in hospitals. Not only is it difficult to get accepted into nursing school, but it's difficult to get a job in California because every semester, there is a flood of new graduates, and nurses who are at retirement age are opting to continue working, so there are less jobs for new graduates.

OrganizedChaos, LVN · Apr 13, 2014

A community college near me only had 15 applicants for their bridge program, I assume they accepted everyone.

Another community college accepted anyone into their program (LVN, RN, bridge) once they passed the TEAS test. I don't know if they are still doing it.

People are probably realizing it's not as easy & guaranteed as they thought.